Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as 12

[Gryffindorian]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

I firmly believe that abstinence (as opposed to distributing condoms) is still the key. It is the parents' or guardians' responsibilities to teach their kids the importance of waiting until they're older. Even schools are teaching sex education. But hey, if it makes it safer to those who are already doing it, who am I to argue with that?

Well and good in a perfect world but in this world we have some parents who have a poor moral code, some parents who are irresponsible or neglectful and some kids who reject any moral code their parents try to teach.

Condoms should be given to the small percentage of children who are having sex too young so that at least the harm is minimised because by the time teachers, social workers etc learn that these children are having sex it is difficult to stop their behaviour.

And you misquoted Mark de Vries. I did not write the paragraph you quoted.

Sorry about that.

No problem. One other thing I don't know is whether the government is going to arbitrarily hand out condoms to these 13-year-olds, or just identify the ones who are active?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

It's almost like encouraging them and saying it's okay to be promiscuous and sexually active at that age. I have mixed feelings about this ... Most youngsters that age are not mature enough to handle or deal with the consequences.

It might almost be like that, but it isn't exactly like that. But it exactly like trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies in almost all cases (one of those consequences you were talking about youngters not being mature enough to handle or no?).

I don't understand the question. I've stated that I have mixed feelings about the distribution of condoms to young kids, especially because they are very, very young at ages 12 through 14. I have nieces and nephews that age and couldn't imagine them being sexually active. I firmly believe that abstinence (as opposed to distributing condoms) is still the key. It is the parents' or guardians' responsibilities to teach their kids the importance of waiting until they're older. Even schools are teaching sex education. But hey, if it makes it safer to those who are already doing it, who am I to argue with that?

Yeah, but you haven't addressed the issue of how refusing to give out condoms helps prevent the issue. Ask 100 13 year olds why they haven't had sex and I guarantee you lack of condoms isn't a big reason (either they're not completely interested or they haven't found someone interested, I'd imagine). Hell, I know someone who used a zip lock bag as a condom because he didn't have access to any.

If you think abstinence is the best option (and I don't entirely disagree with you), it's worth teaching. Does it mean that they shouldn't be allowed to have condoms? Risking pregnancies because people want to live in a world where young people don't have sex is nonsense. Even if you took the approach of the "lesser evil", it's still easier to see why allowing 12 year olds to have access to condoms makes sense.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

Do we have the exact percentage of how many kids in that age demographic are sexually active? We're only guessing, per Miss Chicken's post, that there aren't that many. If the count is not that high now, is the government's charity and generosity justified? Even if that's the case, or let's even say hypothetically that 800 out of 1,000 kids were doing it, I can't help being shocked or amazed by those who are in fact sexually active. Do I think it's helpful to distribute condoms for safety? Absolutely, without a question. Do I think there's a smarter solution in that the society/government should focus on the root of the problem? Yes.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

If I were to go by personal anecdotal evidence, two or three out of seventy or so. Not too many, I'd agree. Still, if one unnecessary pregnancy can be avoided, isn't that a good thing? As far as focusing on the root of the problem, if there's a way to prevent 12 year olds from entering puberty and getting hormonal, that would address the root of the problem, yes.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

And you misquoted Mark de Vries. I did not write the paragraph you quoted.

Sorry about that.

All Quote tags are now fixed. I think.

 

[Rii]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

With technology removing the last biological constraints buttressing regressive and hostile attitudes towards sex rooted in Western civilization's Christian heritage, it's only a matter of time until sex is accepted as something as natural and ethically unremarkable as breathing or eating, with no more meaning than that with which the participants themselves deign to imbue it, to be engaged in from whatever age one feels the desire.

Welcome to the new world.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

Well, i knew what I learned in Sex Ed, but that's about it. It wasn't really a huge topic of conversation among my friends.

Were your friends male, hormone-laden middle schoolers, right? Because that does not compute.

Most of my friends were girls in middle school.

My male best friend turned out to be a raging homosexual.

Mmh. All this could muddle the issue, I guess.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

If I were to go by personal anecdotal evidence, two or three out of seventy or so. Not too many, I'd agree. Still, if one unnecessary pregnancy can be avoided, isn't that a good thing? As far as focusing on the root of the problem, if there's a way to prevent 12 year olds from entering puberty and getting hormonal, that would address the root of the problem, yes.

Of course, preventing pregnancy is a good thing and is easier than preventing teen sex, and for that matter, condoms make sense.

Your rhetorical reply notwithstanding, you know what I'm referring to when I talk about addressing the root of the problem, which is teaching kids the importance of abstinence. It's just like the issue of drug abuse; you teach youths the dangers of illicit drugs. Surely, there's no way to prevent people from manufacturing, even using drugs, but education is a good thing. Knowledge is power. When you present people with facts, they're better equipped to deal with issues and make good decisions. An analogy: it's better to teach kids to say "no" to drugs than to give them sterile needles for fear of them sharing unsanitary syringes to poke themselves with.

 

[Colonel Green]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

^ And when those educational efforts fail to succeed with 100% of children?

 

[RJDiogenes]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

I don't really think that sex and drug abuse fall into the same category.

 

[Jetfire]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

Can we warn kids about sex-addiction? In light of recent events with people in the public eye.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

I think we can all agree that these condom are a good idea and should go hand in hand with educating kids on the dangers of underage sex.

Although now i look at it more, do we really want the Swiss making these condoms, i mean look at their cheese.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

If I were to go by personal anecdotal evidence, two or three out of seventy or so. Not too many, I'd agree. Still, if one unnecessary pregnancy can be avoided, isn't that a good thing? As far as focusing on the root of the problem, if there's a way to prevent 12 year olds from entering puberty and getting hormonal, that would address the root of the problem, yes.

Of course, preventing pregnancy is a good thing and is easier than preventing teen sex, and for that matter, condoms make sense.

Your rhetorical reply notwithstanding, you know what I'm referring to when I talk about addressing the root of the problem, which is teaching kids the importance of abstinence. It's just like the issue of drug abuse; you teach youths the dangers of illicit drugs. Surely, there's no way to prevent people from manufacturing, even using drugs, but education is a good thing. Knowledge is power. When you present people with facts, they're better equipped to deal with issues and make good decisions. An analogy: it's better to teach kids to say "no" to drugs than to give them sterile needles for fear of them sharing unsanitary syringes to poke themselves with.

Two points. First, no one is saying not to teach that. They're just trying to make the sex safer. Second, the drug analogy isn't entirely apt there because, for drugs like Heroin, you need the needle in order to use it. You don't need a condom to have sex, it's just smarter to do so.

I also don't think having sex and using heroin are entirely equal in being bad, but that's a whole other issue.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

^ And when those educational efforts fail to succeed with 100% of children?

Reiteration:

Of course, preventing pregnancy is a good thing and is easier than preventing teen sex, and for that matter, condoms make sense.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

If I were to go by personal anecdotal evidence, two or three out of seventy or so. Not too many, I'd agree. Still, if one unnecessary pregnancy can be avoided, isn't that a good thing? As far as focusing on the root of the problem, if there's a way to prevent 12 year olds from entering puberty and getting hormonal, that would address the root of the problem, yes.

Of course, preventing pregnancy is a good thing and is easier than preventing teen sex, and for that matter, condoms make sense.

Your rhetorical reply notwithstanding, you know what I'm referring to when I talk about addressing the root of the problem, which is teaching kids the importance of abstinence. It's just like the issue of drug abuse; you teach youths the dangers of illicit drugs. Surely, there's no way to prevent people from manufacturing, even using drugs, but education is a good thing. Knowledge is power. When you present people with facts, they're better equipped to deal with issues and make good decisions. An analogy: it's better to teach kids to say "no" to drugs than to give them sterile needles for fear of them sharing unsanitary syringes to poke themselves with.

Two points. First, no one is saying not to teach that. They're just trying to make the sex safer. Second, the drug analogy isn't entirely apt there because, for drugs like Heroin, you need the needle in order to use it. You don't need a condom to have sex, it's just smarter to do so.

I also don't think having sex and using heroin are entirely equal in being bad, but that's a whole other issue.

I'll admit "drug abuse" was a bad analogy, but my point is that sex and drugs are the same issues that every adolescent must deal with and has dealt with in modern-day society. If you were a parent of a 13-year-old boy, what would you tell him? "Son, here's $50 and a box of condoms. Have fun with your date tonight." I think the majority of parents would rather have their 12- to 14-year-olds wait a few more years. To me, handing out the condoms would almost be like enabling these young kids.

 

[Rii]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

I rest my case.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

Source?

 

[Rii]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

United Nations Children's Fund - 1996, p.4

It's older data than I'd like, but I suspect the basic point remains valid: that US teenage birth rates are extraordinarily high relative to other western societies because of the unsually strong anti-sex education/contraception/abortion sentiments within that nation.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

That info is as old as my youngest niece. Seriously, statistics may have changed significantly since then. Also, when you look at the numbers, it says "15 - 19-year-olds," which are older than the "12 - 14" age demographic. FWIW, I think any teen under 18 getting pregnant is a serious issue. I'm not opposed to using contraception although I would equally like to emphasize sex ed and abstinence.

 

[Rii]

Re: Swiss government produces extra small condoms for boys as young as

That info is as old as my youngest niece.

Before posting the link I googled for more recent US data, however nothing I turned up precisely matched the parameters of the existing data. No doubt if I was willing to invest a half-hour investigating the matter I could come up with something more definitive, but I'm not.

Seriously, statistics may have changed significantly since then.

I'm sure they have, but not enough to put a significant dent in what is an order of magnitude discrepancy.

Also, when you look at the numbers, it says "15 - 19-year-olds," which are older than the "12 - 14" age demographic.

Actually it's measuring all births to women below age 20 relative to the number of 15-19yr olds, but I grant that the proportion of births to women below 15 years of age is unlikely to be significant or of statistical interest. However the underlying point is that the opposition to providing young adolescents with the means to safely and responsibly engage in sexual activity is part of a broader pattern of cultural attitudes towards sexuality which serve to shape those numbers.