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Swearing in Star Trek - Steve Shives

I don't know. You seem to be taking for granted that profanity is a Bad Thing, signifying immaturity and lack of control and a sick society, as opposed to just a colorful and sometimes forceful means of expression, which perfectly sane and civilized people can sometimes use to good effect. It's not that people NEED to swear; it's just something human beings do, for all sorts of reasons. Including, yes, the fact that expressing your emotions is not always a bad thing. We're not Vulcans and we're not supposed to be.

Colorful and sometimes forceful means of expression? Sure, it can be used like that, but in my experience, I could NEVER have a serious conversation with people who curse excessively, and historically, its been used as a way to insult others intentionally or it was a reaction to violent emotional outbursts.

We may not be Vulcans, but that doesn't mean Humans can't achieve that kind of high emotional control if they chose to do so.
However, I wasn't referring to Vulcan level of control... just control to allow oneself to remain highly objective in emotionally charged situations and not let emotions in they way (a lack of which is causing massive problems for us in real life).

Look at "This Side of Paradise." Kirk and Co. actually find it weird that the brainwashed colonists never lose their cool, and are relieved when, after after the spores are burned out, the settlers go back to bickering and quarreling among themselves, like normal humans do. I'm suddenly imagining an updated version in which Kirk finds it weird that the colonists never swear -- and breathes a sigh of relief when they start cussing him out at the end. :)

There is a difference between forced brainwashing and teaching people to have a better grip on their emotions so they can retain their cool in charged situations to think objectively.
Of course they would return to bickering, because the writers never thought to implement the idea that these people would probably NOT bicker to such an extent (or at all) in such a future to begin with.

Remember that environment is what shapes behavior... behavior doesn't arise from vacuum.

The way I see it, any "utopian" society in which people seem to have "evolved" beyond profanity is probably more like a sterile dystopia created by brain-warping spores or an insane computer-god.

See also "Return of the Archons," "The Apple," etc. Wanna bet that Landru doesn't approve of swearing? :)

There is nothing 'utopian' about it. People always jump to this conclusion without understanding that it implies 'perfection' which cannot exist in reality.
All you can do is achieve something FAR better than what we have now... and just because a society doesn't use profanity or it managed to solve poverty and eradicate wars, it doesn't mean its sterile or boring by any means - you don't live in such a society so you don't know the full extent of what living in such a society would mean.

You only THINK its sterile because you were taught to equate profanity with being 'colorful' (much like various people today think that you need to get drunk in order to have a good time - whereas we know that's not the case - and when you think about it, alcohol is responsible for a LOT of issues in developed nations).

And Trek writers have been and continue making same mistakes as you do.

I personally wouldn't prevent people from using profanity... I'm just saying that they don't have to use it to be colorful, or interesting (or to make life worth living).

At one point people also thought that smoking is 'colorful' and makes people interesting or cool (heck, they went so far to see it as healthy).. and as a civilization (though we are FAR from civilized), we actually banned it from indoors and discovered its bad for our health. Sure, that doesn't stop some people from smoking, but there's far less people today who do smoke (and eventually, we will probably reach a point where no human will actually smoke - or drink alcohol for that matter - will that make us 'sterile'? Far from it... it will simply change the dynamic of how society as a whole behaves and it will still be interesting and colorful... in fact we could argue that there are ways to be colorful and interesting without doing 90% of the stuff we do right now - but its difficult for many to imagine).
 
My understanding is that the latter obscenity is spelled with a "k," i.e., "Felgerkarb.":nyah::nyah::nyah:

Not that I was ever a much of a fan of the original "Cattlecar Gigantica" (I saw it, but eventually lost interest, along with almost everybody else), much less the reboot.
Where is it spelled on screen in 1978–79? ;)
 
All you can do is achieve something FAR better than what we have now... and just because a society doesn't use profanity or it managed to solve poverty and eradicate wars, it doesn't mean its sterile or boring by any means - you don't live in such a society so you don't know the full extent of what living in such a society would mean.
.

I balk at the idea of equating war and poverty with profanity. The way I see it, profanity is not some sort of ghastly social evil we need to evolve beyond; it's just a harmless means of expression. Heck, in parts of New York and Brooklyn, not to mention any bar where a bunch of Trek writers are hanging out, it's just punctuation. No out-of-control emotional outbursts required. :)

To some degree, I suppose, this is matter of a taste. Personally, I like Trek best when the idealism and optimism remains grounded in the realities of human nature, warts and all, as in TOS, DS9, and DISCO. And I frankly love that Trek characters can actually talk like real people these days. People in the future are not going to just quote Shakespeare and Dickens; they're also going to use ordinary colloquial language as well, as they did on TOS.

It's just that nowadays they can say "fuck" instead of "In a pig's eye!"
 
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I blame The Voyage home movie for presenting 23rd century humans as not recognising or being able to swear. It was done for comic effect but it led to the TNG version of humans as St Homo sapiens of Sol.
Even in a world where relative poverty is eliminated, civil and global wars no longer take place, and meat eaters, smokers, drug takers might be a minority habit, humans will always use colourful language.
 
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:D:D
I found the "sheer fucking hubris" line to be one of the highlights of PIC S1. It perfectly summed up Picard's attitude, and it was one the welcome elements that presented the hero in a less than favorable light. That's in contrast to TNG, which seemed to maintain the tone of taking Picard's side, even when he was being an arrogant, holier-than-thou ass.

The more responses I read, the more I’m convinced the F-Bomb in Picard had merit. Thanks everybody.

Tilly’s F-Bomb was still a shit joke that fell flat though. I’ll never be convinced otherwise. :angel:
 
I love Tilly's "fucking cool" moment. It felt very real and adorable.

It's perhaps also worth noting that much of STAR TREK does not take place on "evolved" worlds, but out on the Final Frontier, which is often closer to the Wild West than utopia, complete with hardscrabble colonists, miners, con artists, merchants, traders, traveling troupes of actors, and so on, not to mention various strange new worlds and civilizations, which presumably have their own customs and curses.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Tellarites are not known for the delicacy and refinement of their speech. And I wouldn't be surprised if Andorians can be quite accomplished and creative when it comes to profanity; they're a passionate people after all. And then there are the Orion pirates . . . .

Seriously, does anybody really think those gruff miners in "Devil in the Dark" and "Mudd's Women" talked like Sunday school teachers when NBC's censors weren't looking? :)
 
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All you can do is achieve something FAR better than what we have now... and just because a society doesn't use profanity or it managed to solve poverty and eradicate wars, it doesn't mean its sterile or boring by any means - you don't live in such a society so you don't know the full extent of what living in such a society would mean.
And it doesn't mean profanity is eliminated either. Not all profanity is used to insult, nor is it an indication of lack of emotional control.

You are right on one point-we don't know. But, like Greg Cox, I'm hesitant to equate social problems,like war and poverty and hunger with profanity. One doesn't equal the other.

Also, behaviors may be guided by environmental factors but emotions are a fundamental part of human life. Otherwise, the works of Marcus Aurelius or Shakespeare, or philosophies like Stocism, would lack relevance today.
 
"Let's get the hell out of here," at the end of "... City..." was Kirk censoring himself for the Network. ;)
KIRK: I think it's about time we got underway ourselves.
UHURA: Captain, I have orders from Starfleet Command. We're to put back into Spacedock immediately, ...to be decommissioned.
SPOCK: If I were human, I believe my response would be 'Fuck off!' ...If I were human. ;)
 
Our swear words could well sound lame in the future.

We think they'll be more advanced in the future, with amazing medicine, FTL, transporters, post-scarcity economy, etc.? Well, swearing will be more advanced, too!

I'm not talking about futuristic sounding words like felgercarb we make up to get by TV censors. I'm talking about kindergarten kids exchanging taunts on the playground that would be the proverbial sailor blush.
 
"Sir, long range sensors are picking up the V'Ger craft approaching the Sol system."

Starfleet Admiral:

Es-5-Yh-PUYAIBv-Wv.jpg
 
Also, behaviors may be guided by environmental factors but emotions are a fundamental part of human life. Otherwise, the works of Marcus Aurelius or Shakespeare, or philosophies like Stocism, would lack relevance today.

And we should stress that the Vulcans were never meant to be role models; they represent one extreme, not something to aspire to. Just as Dr. McCoy represents the other extreme, with Kirk in the middle.

Heck, Spock's whole arc in the first movie, written and produced by Roddenberry no less, is about learning to accept his emotions instead of trying to expunge them as he was at the beginning of the film. Just as "The Enemy Within" is about Kirk realizing that he needs his positive AND negative traits to be a whole person.
 
An extreme that ENT and to a somewhat lesser extent DSC have expanded upon by making the Vulcans antagonistic towards Earth humans or at least display problematic and sometimes dangerous behavior.
 
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