I think somebody is messing with Jack's head. The top three possibilities (imo) are 1) the real Lucifer, 2) Michael (or, at least, some remnant of Michael), and 3) The Shadow.
Spoilers Supernatural season 14
- Thread starter auntiehill
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I think somebody is messing with Jack's head. The top three possibilities (imo) are 1) the real Lucifer, 2) Michael (or, at least, some remnant of Michael), and 3) The Shadow.
Okay, I really wasn't happy about that. I don't understand the point of killing off Mary with only two episodes (and one more season) to go. I'm glad that they at least made a point of saying that she is happy and complete in Heaven (and now we know where John is, although not why he was missing in that earlier episode-- unless Mary's Heaven is just an illusion). But I'm really tired of shows killing off good characters just because. I'm pretty sure that Chuck will return by season's end, but now that I've seen the episode I don't think that he will restore her. It was just done with too much finality.
And Nick is still dead. I was sure that he would be back, but he only made it in the form of a hallucination. There's still a couple of episodes to go, though, and Lucifer is still awake in the Big Empty, and I still don't think he's gone for good.
I'm kind of worried about what they will do to Jack, though. He's been pretty much established as a third Winchester bro at this point, but now I'm not sure that he will be saved. Maybe the final season will hearken back to the first, with just the two Winchesters against the world. Or maybe Chuck will restore Jack's soul.
And Nick is still dead. I was sure that he would be back, but he only made it in the form of a hallucination. There's still a couple of episodes to go, though, and Lucifer is still awake in the Big Empty, and I still don't think he's gone for good.
I'm kind of worried about what they will do to Jack, though. He's been pretty much established as a third Winchester bro at this point, but now I'm not sure that he will be saved. Maybe the final season will hearken back to the first, with just the two Winchesters against the world. Or maybe Chuck will restore Jack's soul.
Something tells me that the Empty is helping Lucifer tap into Jack's mind, so he can get things hurried along so he can ultimately take Castiel.
I think Jack working with Lucifer will be the big bad for next season and that will be about finding away to restore his soul which will involve Castiel doing stuff up in Heaven. Which maybe they use as a excuse to bring back dead characters like Bobby,Mary etc since they are already up their.
Heck I could see the show have Dean and Sam die in the season final and all of next season is set in Heaven.
Jason
Heck I could see the show have Dean and Sam die in the season final and all of next season is set in Heaven.
Jason
Considering the way Heaven is organized, they could do a lot of those Scooby-Doo chases where everyone is running back and forth across the corridor, popping out of different doors. It would save money on sets that they could use on the guest actors. 
There are places like that inside some of those rooms, but who knows if there's an outside. It could be just an infinite maze of corridors.
New episode tonight!
"God writes paperback books in his underwear, and angels are dicks. "
"God writes paperback books in his underwear, and angels are dicks. "
I have a few questions about last night's show:
1) Why was the biblical killing spree necessary? It felt every inch like a plot device to show us Jack's fall from grace, not like an organic development of his character even given the circumstances.
2) Why didn't Cas heal Worm Guy in the hospital?
3) As much as I enjoyed seeing precisely how Duma intended to get Jack to make angels last year, didn't we learn in season 12 that humans can't enter heaven? (Remember that was how they were going to kill Kelly and Jack before the latter was born.) How then did the band of churchgoers survive? Or was Cas specifically talking about the portal and not being teleported?
4) On that same note--the new angels that Jack made, did they have wings like angels are supposed to?
5) Duma's threat to "snap these fingers" (as she put it) and change Mary's heaven seems to suggest angels retained their reality warping powers even all this time after the Fall, and even given the state of affairs in heaven. I find that difficult to believe given what we see of Cas' nonexistent abilities as a seraph, and to date we've gotten no indication that Duma is anything but a lower-tier regular angel. (Sloppy writing, unquestionably.) Besides which, didn't season 5 establish that every soul generates its own heaven? Why would angels have power over that at all?
I will say it was nice to see a display of real archangel power for once, even if they took the form of the biblical punishments. We've always heard about how powerful archangels actually are, but we've only seen a few examples on screen. I get that Jack's a nephilim and more powerful even than Lucifer, but it's still a good reminder of why archangels are so feared...or were before they were all nerfed.
I sure hope next week doesn't end the season with "help Chuck, we must restore Jack's soul"/"Oh, sorry, one soul to a customer"/"GOD! Not you! I banish you to oblivion!" If they bring back Chuck, which seems to be the case, I'm seriously hoping it ends up with "Jack, go to your room, and think about what you did," as Chuck undoes the damage he caused and fixes everything wrong with Heaven. (I'm also sort of hoping that the answer to Heaven's problems is to bust all of Chuck's children out of The Empty, which requires one of the Winchesters to be sent there to wake them up...cue cliffhanger ending a la season 7.)
1) Why was the biblical killing spree necessary? It felt every inch like a plot device to show us Jack's fall from grace, not like an organic development of his character even given the circumstances.
2) Why didn't Cas heal Worm Guy in the hospital?
3) As much as I enjoyed seeing precisely how Duma intended to get Jack to make angels last year, didn't we learn in season 12 that humans can't enter heaven? (Remember that was how they were going to kill Kelly and Jack before the latter was born.) How then did the band of churchgoers survive? Or was Cas specifically talking about the portal and not being teleported?
4) On that same note--the new angels that Jack made, did they have wings like angels are supposed to?
5) Duma's threat to "snap these fingers" (as she put it) and change Mary's heaven seems to suggest angels retained their reality warping powers even all this time after the Fall, and even given the state of affairs in heaven. I find that difficult to believe given what we see of Cas' nonexistent abilities as a seraph, and to date we've gotten no indication that Duma is anything but a lower-tier regular angel. (Sloppy writing, unquestionably.) Besides which, didn't season 5 establish that every soul generates its own heaven? Why would angels have power over that at all?
I will say it was nice to see a display of real archangel power for once, even if they took the form of the biblical punishments. We've always heard about how powerful archangels actually are, but we've only seen a few examples on screen. I get that Jack's a nephilim and more powerful even than Lucifer, but it's still a good reminder of why archangels are so feared...or were before they were all nerfed.
I sure hope next week doesn't end the season with "help Chuck, we must restore Jack's soul"/"Oh, sorry, one soul to a customer"/"GOD! Not you! I banish you to oblivion!" If they bring back Chuck, which seems to be the case, I'm seriously hoping it ends up with "Jack, go to your room, and think about what you did," as Chuck undoes the damage he caused and fixes everything wrong with Heaven. (I'm also sort of hoping that the answer to Heaven's problems is to bust all of Chuck's children out of The Empty, which requires one of the Winchesters to be sent there to wake them up...cue cliffhanger ending a la season 7.)
Cas said he couldn't heal damage done by that level of power-- I don't remember what exact phrase he used but he made it rather clear that he couldn't undo it.
Okay, that was a pretty eventful episode. The season is certainly not winding down in any of the ways that I predicted, other than Jack going off the rails.
I'm sorry to see Duma get sent off to the Big Empty, even if she did turn out to be kind of Old Testament. I like Erica Cerra. But I wonder if this means that Cass will be able to get Naomi out of her very little room. And what will become of those people that Jack brought to Heaven? Are they Angels now, or did he not complete the process? Would it really have worked anyway? Are they Angel enough to help keep the lights on in Heaven? Heaven didn't really seem to be as bad off as it used to be.
The Winchester boys are really going to regret being deceitful with Jack. Even without a soul, he still meant well and was open to advice-- he just needed to be around people with better advice. They probably could have talked him into returning to Heaven under Cass's supervision until they figured out a way to restore his soul (if Angel grace can be restored, why not a human soul?). Now he's blown up the magic coffin that was strong enough to hold an Archangel and his eyes are all glowing and stuff and things look really bad. I hope they don't destroy the MOL Bunker. That would really suck.
I'm sorry to see Duma get sent off to the Big Empty, even if she did turn out to be kind of Old Testament. I like Erica Cerra. But I wonder if this means that Cass will be able to get Naomi out of her very little room. And what will become of those people that Jack brought to Heaven? Are they Angels now, or did he not complete the process? Would it really have worked anyway? Are they Angel enough to help keep the lights on in Heaven? Heaven didn't really seem to be as bad off as it used to be.
The Winchester boys are really going to regret being deceitful with Jack. Even without a soul, he still meant well and was open to advice-- he just needed to be around people with better advice. They probably could have talked him into returning to Heaven under Cass's supervision until they figured out a way to restore his soul (if Angel grace can be restored, why not a human soul?). Now he's blown up the magic coffin that was strong enough to hold an Archangel and his eyes are all glowing and stuff and things look really bad. I hope they don't destroy the MOL Bunker. That would really suck.
Holy.
Shit.
Wow! If you going to do a cliff- hangsr, you might as well go big-- and the end of the world is pretty darn big.
I don't think that was Chuck-- probably Lucifer or the guy from the big empty. But I don't think that was really Chuck. For all his faults, he usually isn't proactively a dick.
Shit.
Wow! If you going to do a cliff- hangsr, you might as well go big-- and the end of the world is pretty darn big.
I don't think that was Chuck-- probably Lucifer or the guy from the big empty. But I don't think that was really Chuck. For all his faults, he usually isn't proactively a dick.
Wow, just wow. I guess Lucifer gets everything from Chuck. Im still just in shock and awe. I never seen this ending coming at all. Talk about a shake up, talk about all the multiverse versions of Sam and Dean being real, to Chuck being the real big bad and everything was just a book to him. And his snap is bigger than Thanos .
Red Jacket was a red flag, but who has the power to do what Chuck did tonight though?
^ I know. He may have been The King of Hell but he had standards.
Of course the ultimate bad guy for Supernatural is God. You can't get bigger than that for the final season. And all the monsters Sam and Dean dealt with seem to be back. Wow. Will we see zombie Mary and Joihn?
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