Supernatural 7x10 "Death's Door" spoiler discussion thread

[mswood]

Wasn't Crowley the head cross roads demon? I doubt he'd be willing to answer the call now, or order an underling to do it.

They don't actually have a choice in the matter. You summon one and it automatically teleports to your location, whether it wants to or not. Even demons that aren't powerful enough to teleport on their own are subject to such summoning. It's one of the many small annoyances that come with being a demon.

Actually we know this isn't true. In the flashback to the time right after Dean's Death, the CRD that finally showed up to answer Sam was the first demon to actual show (after Sam mad multiple attempts), and based on further dialogue, I Don't think Sam stopped trying any time soon.

Of course this could be due to Lilith stopping the rank and file CRD (she at that time held all contracts, and she isn't a CRD, she was after the death of Azazeal the leader of Hell). So it seems that the current boss in Hell has a lot of say about the actions and the contracts of CRD. Though we do know that a CRD can deal without the big man's consent or knowledge, but we do know that the big wig holds sway over the rank and file.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I stopped watching SN around the 2nd episode of the season but saw this thread and decided to record it on Friday especially with most other shows on winter hiatus and watch it over the weekend and it most certainly was no "In My Time of Dying"--it was a pale shadow of that poignant and powerful hour or even Season 5's "Abandon All Hope"--this was just watered down drek.

Unlike most in this thread I found the episode to be very old and tired. If I didn't know better I would say the episode's title referred more to the series or Sera including just about every death cliche that has been done to death on tv for years and years--from someone not accepting that they are dead, to a stroll down memory lane revisiting points in their life, confronting a terrible trauma and one so trite as an abusive father--yawn, using famililar sets and have it all happen in eveyone's mind--yawn, standard hospital drama with a lot of doctors working on a patient and the worried loved ones kept out--again been there done that better elsewhere even on this series itself in the aforementioned season two masterpiece, I knew the little boy was Bobby two seconds in, and instead of an intriguing glimpse into Bobby and Rufus' relationship we get treated to a standard ghost story SN has run straight into the ground.

Rufus himself as a "guide" was lame. And for a show known to be fast and loose with their magical macgufins I found it hard to believe that Bobby could contain a Reaper using imaginary ingredients and symbols drawn from inside his head.

The only good scene was the brief one of bout twenty seconds between Sam and Dean facing the reality Bobby might not make it. That was powerful. The rest of the episode was crap. And a character death is not what it once used to be--now they are all too commonplace and lost their impact especially on a show like this that just kills people off right and left.

The Leviathans suck as a Big Bad. Dick is not the least bit scary or intriguing. He is an annoying cartoon-like cookie cutter politician douche bag and their seeming plan of taking over the world insidiously by infiltrating governments and all areas of society including the White House has been done to death as well.

If this episode was going to draw me back in the second half of the season it failed miserably.

 

[mswood]

Startrekwatcher

I took much of the actual story of the episode differently then you (and I only watched it once so if I remember this incorrectly then oops)

In Death Takes a Holiday and in "In My Time of Dying, the person interacting with the Reaper could interact with the waking world, ie their spirit had already left the bounds of their body, be it from those who were in all but name already Dead, Dean and those that were already truly Dead, the Boy.

We also know that your spirit can be removed from your body while fully living (as Pamela did with Sam and Dean). In all four examples, the person interacted with the waking world. They could even manipulate the waking world. In fact they were, what we would technically call a ghost (a very early stage spirit).

In this episode, I don't think we ever see Bobby in such a place or state. His experience was all internal. His memories, his experiences, shaped and reshaped. But nothing touching or impacting a waking state.

Bobby's was considerable different, considerable. In fact his experience was much closer to what we saw when Bobby (and other's) were in coma's before being killed in "Dream a Little Dream." Where your subconscious mind could be shaped and molded. Where your mind had a sort of power over your environment, experiences, and people you interacted with. Now you in these cases it ended with death, but they weren't yet dead.

When I was watching the episode I thought we were watching Bobby's subconscious mind processing the fact that he was soon to be dying. Not that his spirit had already actually left his person. I took that part to be right at the end of the episode.

And seeing a Rufus who wasn't the same, a world were his paste events come out and take focus, and how he had to process his recent actions with a merged menagerie of his past event's fit.

Ie I didn't see it as him binding a Reaper, or the Spirit of Rufus helping him, ect, ect I just saw that has Bobby's mind reacting to what he perceived to be mortal harm, and then how his subconscious (which has been exposed to I am sure many different accounts of Death) used all those different stories to shape his own internal battle.

 

[RJDiogenes]

That's exactly it; it was kind of like a lucid dream. Although I think the Reaper was real.

 

[hyzmarca]

Wasn't Crowley the head cross roads demon? I doubt he'd be willing to answer the call now, or order an underling to do it.

They don't actually have a choice in the matter. You summon one and it automatically teleports to your location, whether it wants to or not. Even demons that aren't powerful enough to teleport on their own are subject to such summoning. It's one of the many small annoyances that come with being a demon.

Actually we know this isn't true. In the flashback to the time right after Dean's Death, the CRD that finally showed up to answer Sam was the first demon to actual show (after Sam mad multiple attempts), and based on further dialogue, I Don't think Sam stopped trying any time soon.

Of course this could be due to Lilith stopping the rank and file CRD (she at that time held all contracts, and she isn't a CRD, she was after the death of Azazeal the leader of Hell). So it seems that the current boss in Hell has a lot of say about the actions and the contracts of CRD. Though we do know that a CRD can deal without the big man's consent or knowledge, but we do know that the big wig holds sway over the rank and file.

I believe there is a difference between putting up the crossroads signal and summoning a specific demon by burning the colonel's 11 herbs and spices. The latter is irresistible, the former isn't. Of course, summoning a specific demon requires that you know which demon you're summoning, among other things.

 

[Dream]

Wow, I'm surprised NO ONE has posted this news yet.

A fan favorite character will be returning later in the season!

Spoiler: spoiler

Misha Collins is returning!

Awesome!