Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoilerish

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Well this is the first Supernatural season that I'm going to follow straight through from start to finish on and I thought the episode was incredible. The teaser was amazing...and I enjoyed the subtle way they were showing us Lucifer's influence upon the world already with the flash floods, Swine Flu, etc from the radio reports. We need Pete Venkmen here to take out Zacheriah, the actor who's name always escape is great at playing arseholes, and everyone in Supernatural seems to be some kind of arsehole. As mentioned I liked how Dean not being able to forgive Sam.Didn't really like Bobby's possesion for the same reasons the poster mentioned. The superfan was a little over the top but I liked how she was writing slash fiction involving Dean and Sam when Chuck contacts her it was amusing.Are we going to see God? Or Jesus? The show already seems like it's trying to stay away from dispensationalism or "end times" theory and do their own thing. I liked how Zacheriah reveals that Dean is the sword of Michael or Michael's vessel. This thing is going to be one whacky ride of an Apocolypse.

 

[Checkmate]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

I really enjoyed the episode.

Samlicker1 or whatever the superfan's name was really hit the mark on how most people see slash fiction writers/fans. Just creepy and awkward, especially in person. It doesn't surprise me at all that its getting a negative response from numerous people; a little too close to home. XD

Bobby's possession was a bit odd but I can handle it. Castiel all but pointed out that the demons and angels are a bit more powerful right now, hence him burning the new sigil straight into their ribcage. You also have to keep in mind that despite how powerful the demons must be in order to possess Bobby, he was still able to overcome them and exorcise them from himself (albeit in a crazed fashion). That says a lot not only about him but of how well his safeguards were prior to Lucifer's rising.

Castiel, as always, was badass! I have a soft spot for any kind of calvary scene, so seeing him show up and put the Holy Smackethdown upon his former superiors and equals caused me to nearly cheer outloud. The show finally has a true servant of God and he's backing the brothers up just as he should have from the very beginning. Woo!

I also think that Castiel does see Dean as a friend; a friendship that has developed over the course of the last season. There's only been so much he could do to show that friendship, but it's clearly there. I mean, he is an angel afterall and free will isn't exactly a strong suit for them... so any sign of going against his orders means a hell of a lot. And he did so numeorus times. Especially once Dean convinced him that Zachariah and the others weren't exactly following God's decrees.

And, finally, Lucifer's seduction of his host is exactly what I was hoping to see. I hate the over-the-top "eeeeevil" take of him. In the Bible he's always used the truth and man's own nature to see his goals through. And, to be honest, there's several examples of where he's actually the good or simply compassionate guy versus the overbearing cruel or judgemental God (offering Jesus water, the whole Job debacle, seeing that God was just tormenting Adam and Eve by putting the Tree of Knowledge there but saying they can't eat from it, etc.). So it's nice to see him portrayed this way.

I think the only part that felt flat was Meg. I just wasn't feeling anything there. She just seemed to be a random gothic-punk ditz working for some higher-up. Not a powerful demon or serious threat whatsoever.

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

I really enjoyed the episode.

Samlicker1 or whatever the superfan's name was really hit the mark on how most people see slash fiction writers/fans. Just creepy and awkward, especially in person. It doesn't surprise me at all that its getting a negative response from numerous people; a little too close to home. XD

Bobby's possession was a bit odd but I can handle it. Castiel all but pointed out that the demons and angels are a bit more powerful right now, hence him burning the new sigil straight into their ribcage. You also have to keep in mind that despite how powerful the demons must be in order to possess Bobby, he was still able to overcome them and exorcise them from himself (albeit in a crazed fashion). That says a lot not only about him but of how well his safeguards were prior to Lucifer's rising.

Oh I have no problem with them making fun of slash writers, but on an episode that was really quite serious that just seemed out of place.

As for Bobby we have seen that people are able to briefly assert control when they are possessed (we Saw John do this in Devil's Trap), but I think the host has to be aware to have any chance. I liked that when Sam was possessed he wasn't always aware of what went on (like when he was torturing Dean). So I found that quite nice to bring back up.

But as for Bobby being possessed, the demon seem to be under Meg. Didn't seem like some new up and comer, and if they had the ability to break the tatoo they would have absolutely taken both Dean and Sam. The only way I can think of is if Meg (or one of the other demons) damaged the skin in some other way to break the pattern of the tattoo. Then we are cool.

 

[Aragorn]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Fun fact: The guy who will play Lucifer also played Hulk Hogan's brother in "No Holds Barred." And in that movie, the greedy Vince McMahon-type character was played by the actor who plays Zachariah. So maybe Hulk Hogan and Tiny Lister will be appearing on Supernatural soon.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Zachariah is so slimy. You gotta love him.

Final ratings for the Supernatural premiere according to Travis Yanan at pifeedback.com--

Supernatural
- 3.399 million viewers
- 2.1/3 HH
- 1.4/4 A18-49
- 1.4/4 A18-34
- 1.7/5 W18-34

Decent numbers. Better than the Melrose series premiere by over half a million. Up 6 percent in Dawn's O's precious female 18-34 demo. Better than 90210. About on par with the numbers they were drawing regularly last fall after the premiere. The NFL football game that aired last night took a lot of our male viewers with it; it garnered pretty impressive ratings. Our ratings will fall some when the competition starts, but the core audience of about 3 million who watch live is still there. The DVR numbers will get reported in about a week; they'll probably be high. They always are.

So--not too bad. Not fantastic. Maybe it's a good thing that the numbers aren't out of sight. Maybe that means no season six and that the series can end like Kripke wants.

EDIT: Speaking of the NFL ratings (Tennesse vs. Steelers) that aired on NBC, here are its final ratings.

NFL Season Opener: Tennessee at Pittsburgh (NBC)
8:30 p.m. – Viewers: 19.59 million (#1), A18-49: 7.3/21 (#1)
9:00 p.m. – Viewers: 19.95 million (#1), A18-49: 7.6/21 (#1)
9:30 p.m. – Viewers: 20.13 million (#1), A18-49: 8.1/22 (#1)
10:00 p.m. – Viewers: 17.28 million (#1), A18-49: 7.2/19 (#1)
10:30 p.m. – Viewers: 17.30 million (#1), A18-49: 7.3/20 (#1)

Damn, even when we don't have major competition, we still do.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Maybe it's because I'm a guy, but I don't get the fangirl's reactions to Sam and Dean. Dean seems like the one with the better looks. Is it because Sam is tall?

Sam (aka Jared) is pretty damn impressive in the flesh. Both boys are gorgeous in the face, but over the course of the show, Jared has grown up. He's like 6'5" and built like the proverbial. I could entirely understand the fangirl's reaction. But I wouldn't have been so quick to dismiss Dean either. I'd have been, "Have you boys ever considered a threesome?"

Samlicker1 or whatever the superfan's name was really hit the mark on how most people see slash fiction writers/fans. Just creepy and awkward, especially in person. It doesn't surprise me at all that its getting a negative response from numerous people; a little too close to home. XD

Heh - that's why I love it. It shows the writers know what's going on out there and aren't just in their Ivory Tower typing away.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

I don't know, this seemed kind of forced and disjointed to me, like let's throw a bunch a crap at the wall and see what sticks. I hope the show gets back to a more natural "flow", I fear they don't quite know how to deal with the show moving to the next level in this war.

The flashbacks are still rocking though, I think those are some of my favorite parts of many episodes.

 

[Ragnar_Blackman]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

I think they screwed uo a bit with this episide- its not what people were expecting.

I know i thought death and rains of blood would feature heavily, and the guys would have to hide for all their worth.

Didn't think this would happen...

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Well I guess that does it for me - I still cannot get into this show. The minutae of the Apocalypse - who does what, what are the rules, etc. - just doesn't grab me.

What did grab me was the Marc Pelligrino part of the story. The dilemma of some guy who is willing to become the host of Satan, wow, that was intense.

Of course I'm sure Satan was behind his family's murder. You'd think, once Satan revealed that appropriate hosts were rare, Pelligrino's character would have been able to figure that out. But I guess the poor guy was in too much pain to be thinking straight. Ole Lucifer probably took inventory of every good host on Earth and targetted someone who was none too bright and emotionally manipulable.

 

[Skywalker]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

I think they screwed uo a bit with this episide- its not what people were expecting.

I know i thought death and rains of blood would feature heavily, and the guys would have to hide for all their worth.

Didn't think this would happen...

I wasn't really expecting that, mainly because this show just doesn't have the budget for that kind of thing. Maybe if they were still running with their budget in the first season, but IIRC their budget's been slashed every year (maybe not this year, though).

Of course I'm sure Satan was behind his family's murder. You'd think, once Satan revealed that appropriate hosts were rare, Pelligrino's character would have been able to figure that out. But I guess the poor guy was in too much pain to be thinking straight. Ole Lucifer probably took inventory of every good host on Earth and targetted someone who was none too bright and emotionally manipulable.

The way it sounds to me is that only one person in the world is the vessel for a certain angel, which is probably why they're treated with such reverence. If Dean wasn't the only potential vessel for Michael, why would Zachariah have bothered trying to get him to consent to Michael possessing him? He would have just gone after someone with a much weaker will.

And I don't think Lucifer had anything to do with the murders of Nick's family. He was imprisoned, couldn't do anything, and a demon had to go through a complicated ritual just to be able to contact him, as Azazel did back in the (I think) '20s. No, I think it was just a terrible coincidence and Lucifer used it to his advantage.

 

[Bad Atom]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Thanks to my little brother I've gotten mega-hooked on this show over the last two months. I mainlined seasons 1-4 and now I'm all caught up just in time to watch the show live and get my weekly fix.

I'd give this one a B+. Good, solid start to the (hopefully last) season.

However, the "SamGirl" bits are seriously running the risk of making the show a parody of itself. The couple of meta-references last season were fine, but I hope they don't push their luck.

Also, too much Dean snark. Although, apparently my brother has never heard the term "asshat" before, so at least it had educational value.

Did anyone think Castiel was dead for even a second? (Especially since the actor's name is in the opening credits now?) I don't even know why they tried to wring any suspense out of that. Glad to see him kicking ass, though. Maybe he can teach Sam a thing or two... Also, am I the only one amused by the fact that angels have henchmen?

Bobby being possessed and stabbing himself surprised me and was probably the best moment of the show. He needs to heal up quick so he can continue being awesome.

 

[Thrall]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Good episode. But I had a few questions. The Bobby thing was a stretch, but it worked.

So apparently, you are predestined from birth to be a vessel. Ok, sure what ever. Does that mean that there are several vessels for one Angel, or just one? And who decides?

What did they mean by "the sword was lost"? Did somehow it become human and Dean is like apart of it's lineage or something? And how and why is Dean the sword?

Was Lucifer behind the murder of that guy's family? I really hope not. I like this anti-hero Devil. The whole "whaa haa haa look at me I'm so EVIIILLLLL!!" gets old. To me, he's pretty much in keeping with the MO of all of The Host. He seems to have noble goals, but he thinks the ends justify the means. Because what he was arguing for wasn't actually wrong. I'd hate to see it was all a ruse. Because villains who don't think they're villains are the best ones.

 

[Checkmate]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

My only complaint is that the episode was too crowded with story seeds. They were just trying to start too many threads. Off the top of my head there's:

1. The return of God and Castiel.
2. The Michael Sword.
3. Dean being a vessel for Michael. (May or may not be related to the previous point; can't exactly trust Zachariah.)
4. Samlicker1.
5. The lack of the archangels or angels protecting Chuck.
6. Bobby's possession.
7. Meg.
8. Lucifer's seduction of his vessel.

That's a pretty crazy list and a lot to shove into only one episode.

There was one thing I couldn't figure out. How did Zacharian suddenly discover that Dean was skinride for Michael? It just came out of nowhere and made very little sense, especially if you do believe everything he said in that little speech.

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

My only complaint is that the episode was too crowded with story seeds. They were just trying to start too many threads. Off the top of my head there's:

1. The return of God and Castiel.
2. The Michael Sword.
3. Dean being a vessel for Michael. (May or may not be related to the previous point; can't exactly trust Zachariah.)
4. Samlicker1.
5. The lack of the archangels or angels protecting Chuck.
6. Bobby's possession.
7. Meg.
8. Lucifer's seduction of his vessel.

That's a pretty crazy list and a lot to shove into only one episode.

There was one thing I couldn't figure out. How did Zacharian suddenly discover that Dean was skinride for Michael? It just came out of nowhere and made very little sense, especially if you do believe everything he said in that little speech.

Well to answer some of the questions.

Arch angels are only show themselves to Chuck when his life is in direct jeopardy (mentioned in previous episodes) and that wasn't the case her, ergo no Arch angels.

I would assume that they have always known (at least the hire ups) that Dean was supposed to be Michael's meat suit. Hell the show has had a vague reference going back to season 2 of a Michael/Dean connection so really isn't out of left field at all.

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Good episode. But I had a few questions. The Bobby thing was a stretch, but it worked.

So apparently, you are predestined from birth to be a vessel. Ok, sure what ever. Does that mean that there are several vessels for one Angel, or just one? And who decides?

What did they mean by "the sword was lost"? Did somehow it become human and Dean is like apart of it's lineage or something? And how and why is Dean the sword?

Was Lucifer behind the murder of that guy's family? I really hope not. I like this anti-hero Devil. The whole "whaa haa haa look at me I'm so EVIIILLLLL!!" gets old. To me, he's pretty much in keeping with the MO of all of The Host. He seems to have noble goals, but he thinks the ends justify the means. Because what he was arguing for wasn't actually wrong. I'd hate to see it was all a ruse. Because villains who don't think they're villains are the best ones.

To answer one question, when the talk about the "sword" being lost they specifically refer to the fact that Dean started using the hex bags (that Ruby taught Sam to make) that prevent Angels from tracking him. Thus suddenly Dean is lost to them.

Well we do know from previous episodes that Angel can have more then one host, but we also do know that people's destiny and Angels are intertwined. I would expect (based on angel's preferences to the same host, even going so far as reconstructing a lost host body) that there is some benefit to having your primary host body.

As such I would assume Michael going again't Lucifer would want the host most compatible for what you would assume to be his most difficult trial.

As for if the devil was responsible for the deaths, I think the writers specifically want that up in the air. After all in most cases you don't want to start characters with all the cards on the table.

 

[Checkmate]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Arch angels are only show themselves to Chuck when his life is in direct jeopardy (mentioned in previous episodes) and that wasn't the case her, ergo no Arch angels.

Still seems odd how they had no problem roughing him up and flat-out implanting false prophecies into him. Just didn't seem right.

I would assume that they have always known (at least the hire ups) that Dean was supposed to be Michael's meat suit. Hell the show has had a vague reference going back to season 2 of a Michael/Dean connection so really isn't out of left field at all.

Perhaps, but the clincher is that Zachariah agreed and implied -- if not flat-out said -- that they didn't know who the vessel was until just recently.

Also, does anyone else get the impression that Zachariah is going to end up being Lucifer 2.0?

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

I think they screwed uo a bit with this episide- its not what people were expecting.

I know i thought death and rains of blood would feature heavily, and the guys would have to hide for all their worth.

Didn't think this would happen...

This actually surprises me, the producers have made no secret (in fact were more open about that then almost any plot point int eh shows history) that we would not be seeing any such thing. They learned by the first episode of the 3rd season that they did not have the budget (and the budget is smaller now then years earlier), to show anything in a large scale.

Thus everything is presented as a character piece. Everything focused (well with only a couple of exceptions) through the eyes of just two characters on a intimate scale. In fact, I find that one of the greatest strengths of the show.

For example if you watched the earlier seasons, we have a character in hell, and what did hell consist of? Well one brief CGI shot of Dean suspended on Meat Hooks, then every other shot of hell is shown by focusing on Dean's eyes with lights playing off his features and screams in the background.

That should have absolutely keyed in any viewers of season 3 and 4 that any apocalypse wasn't ever going to focus anything on a large scale.

 

[Checkmate]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

As for if the devil was responsible for the deaths, I think the writers specifically want that up in the air. After all in most cases you don't want to start characters with all the cards on the table.

It would be pretty lame if he were responsible for their deaths. Lucifer is more of an opportunist who exploits man's own flaws and weaknesses. He didn't create the Tree of Knowledge. He didn't make God torture Job. He didn't make Jesus walk through a desert without food or water. So why would he change his modus operandi now?

It's also a fantastic contrast to Dean. Zachariah did try to directly manipulate events and torture Dean into giving up his body to Michael, yet none of that worked. Lucifer's being all coy and seductive, using events to his benefit... and getting exactly what he's after.

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Checkmate

I agree but I do know others who don't, and either way its nice not to know. To give you that open ground on how that character acts, especially in his first appearance.

Well you notice that the mess of his house, during Castiel attempt to stop other angels, no direct harm came to Chuck. So clearly on that off camera scene he was protected. But for the scenes shown there was no risk to Chuck, thus no reason to come forth.

As for giving Chuck a false vision, I would think that would be quite easy. Compare that to what Zachariah did to both Sam and Dean last season. And it also plays into how he works by again implanting false reality to manipulate someone to get the results he wants.

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 5x1 "Sympathy For the Devil" discussion thread/spoile

Zachariah is so slimy. You gotta love him.

Final ratings for the Supernatural premiere according to Travis Yanan at pifeedback.com--

Supernatural
- 3.399 million viewers
- 2.1/3 HH
- 1.4/4 A18-49
- 1.4/4 A18-34
- 1.7/5 W18-34

Decent numbers. Better than the Melrose series premiere by over half a million. Up 6 percent in Dawn's O's precious female 18-34 demo. Better than 90210. About on par with the numbers they were drawing regularly last fall after the premiere. The NFL football game that aired last night took a lot of our male viewers with it; it garnered pretty impressive ratings. Our ratings will fall some when the competition starts, but the core audience of about 3 million who watch live is still there. The DVR numbers will get reported in about a week; they'll probably be high. They always are.

So--not too bad. Not fantastic. Maybe it's a good thing that the numbers aren't out of sight. Maybe that means no season six and that the series can end like Kripke wants.

EDIT: Speaking of the NFL ratings (Tennesse vs. Steelers) that aired on NBC, here are its final ratings.

NFL Season Opener: Tennessee at Pittsburgh (NBC)
8:30 p.m. – Viewers: 19.59 million (#1), A18-49: 7.3/21 (#1)
9:00 p.m. – Viewers: 19.95 million (#1), A18-49: 7.6/21 (#1)
9:30 p.m. – Viewers: 20.13 million (#1), A18-49: 8.1/22 (#1)
10:00 p.m. – Viewers: 17.28 million (#1), A18-49: 7.2/19 (#1)
10:30 p.m. – Viewers: 17.30 million (#1), A18-49: 7.3/20 (#1)

Damn, even when we don't have major competition, we still do.

Yeah I compared the ratings to that of last season's opener, and the competition in total had grown nearly 10 million. In fact total audience size was closer to that of when everything is new except having either Grey's or CSi being a repeat (same with the demo). In that regard the ratings are very close to what we got when that did happen.

Of course what is also true is that Vampire Diaries did really really well even with that extra competition. They certainly would have faired even better. Still haven't watched the full thing (great atmosphere,one or two good characters, but damn most of the characters and so much of the dialogue, groan....). But I am betting that it will do ok, there isn't anything that airs this season at that time aimed at that audience.