Supernatural 4x16 "On the Head of a Pin" SPOILER discussion thread

[Dorian Thompson]

New eppy tonight, ladies and gentlemen. Lots of soul shattering revelations to come, and Sammy is being a baaaaaaad boy. I'll be rushing back to the NCAA tournament to watch the Sooners after the eppy is over then check back in late with it. Let's have fun.

 

[Samurai8472]

Nice to Christopher Heyerdahl in another Canadian show

 

[Lt. Trull]

major attitude change coming huh....

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Holy mother of God, how dark is this show gonna go?

Wow. Alistair is one sick mofo. I'm not sure I buy that story about John being on the rack every day. Alistair singing, "Dancing Cheek to Cheek" when Dean wheeled in the torture instruments was diabolical. Sick. Puppy. From. Hell.

Uriel's the funniest angel in the garrison--Castiel.

 

[mswood]

Holy mother of God, how dark is this show gonna go?

Wow. Alistair is one sick mofo. I'm not sure I buy that story about John being on the rack every day. Alistair singing, "Dancing Cheek to Cheek" when Dean wheeled in the torture instruments was diabolical. Sick. Puppy. From. Hell.

Uriel's the funniest angel in the carousel--Castiel.

Well how do you mess with Dean. Two ways Sam and Dean. Since (as far as we know) Sam hasn't been to hell (and if he was it wouldn't have been very long at all, even by their measure).

But JOhn he was there, and lets face it Dean has never felt he measured up, so use John to illastrate that he didn't (and Dean has no way of knowing if its a lie or the truth), but it plays upon his fears.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

I love these sinister angels. Resentful of humanity to the extreme. Even Anna doesn't think God exists. She doesn't know. I love that He absolutely refuses to show himself. Lucifer wouldn't bow to men and God threw him out. The angels are resentful.

God doesn't care what we do. I am proof of that.

Me like.

Oh Dean. You are breaking my heart. Damn Ackles can bring that angst. It's fate. He's touched by fate. Damn, Misha Collins was an exceptional find for this show.

 

[Garibaldi O'brien]

I wandered into Supernatural in S3, and S4 has me totally hooked, as I've heard the team is determined to do a 5 year arc, and bow the curtains. I sure hope that's the plan, after they deliver an episode like this.

I was very impressed the episode fleshed out the heaven/hell meta-space as well as it did. Who knows what Angels like this are going to do? FUN, like V, erm, demon blood.

EDIT: Alistair is Todd the Wraith? Right? He gets around, he looks quite different hairless on Sanctuary too.

 

[mswood]

Boy I love my twisted little show.

Loves-Dragging Dean more scarred little psyche fully out in the open. Loved it.

Loved-Castiel. THey want him as a regular (I hope in the manner as Bela & Ruby in season 3. As much as I like the character and the actor, I still want this to be the Dean and Sam show. Easily his biggest show (with another coming up) I think thats enough focus for one season. But so far, the character and actor have been nothing but a grace (sorry) for the show.

Loved-Sam. I love that they still don't show Sam actually causing harm. AS fucked up as his actions are, he hasn't caused harm to anyone (with the exception of possible himself and of course Dean's trust in him). Loved that we are seeing him actually use abilities that they hinted at with Ava and Jake, something truly, truly powerful. Loved Castiel's reaction to Sam . As good as all of his scenes were his looks at Sam were stellar. Loved that the show is showing how he is causing his powers to grow. This season has really (in comparison to previous years) really teased events, but also shown payoff to those hints. I like.

Loved-Uriel, again just solid casting, an actor who gives weight to every scene he is in. Actually surprised they killed him.

Allistar- Wasn't bad tonight, loved his dialogue, even the accent bothered me less. Loved how well he played Dean (which he should be able to do with ease).

Ruby-I give the actress a lot of grief (of which I think she often earns in her poor performance, but this episode, better then any other showcase to sides to her. From her outward appearance of being out to get Lilith and looking out after Sam, to her hidden glee in seeing Sam push further and further. That we absolutely need to see, it truly helps her character and the actress held her own. Now what her end game is, who knows, but clearly it isn't just what she has been fronting to Sam, and its good for the audience to get a glimpse of it).

Anna-I liked Anna the confused girl, I hated Anna the angel. I thought "Heaven and Hell" was the weakest episode of the season. And I disliked the use of the same Host. But once I got over that contrivance she actually added to the story.

The Seals-Loved that Dean started it, and is supposed to end it. The alpha and the omega all rolled into a hottie. I am very curious if Sam is also going to play some role in a specific seal (hint Lucifer). Liked that they finally answered why they wouldn't deal with Sam. Another long questioned action (with different possible reasons).

Loved how John even though its been a long time since he was a part of the show is still a huge presence.

Really this was a extremely solid, entertaining and mytharc advancing episode. While it lacked the strong emotional core for the series that In the Beginning had (that touched on so many parts of the show and in a very personal way), but never the less a strong, strong episode.

And any show that can have angels questioning the very existence of God, is always a plus in my book.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Alistair is played by an actor named Christopher Heyerdahl, if that means anything. I'm not sure what else he's been in. Singing, "Heaven....I'm in Heaven....and my heart beats so that I can hardly speeeeeeeeak....." that was just sick. Not that I don't love the touch, mind you but it was still sick.

I love that God isn't showing up with the pat answers. Isn't that what God seems to do in real life, if He exists at all? Leave us to find our own answers? As supernaturally themed as the show is, that much rings true. I love it that neither Anna, Cas, or Uriel has seen Him.

 

[Garibaldi O'brien]

Yep. That's it. Christopher Heyerdahl. The hardest working actor in Vancouver, methinks! The man knows how to rock his facial hair, and makeup into being hidden all over the place these days.

SG-1 - remember the Amish Dome people with the head-internet. He was Carter's friend in that ep.
Atlantis - Started as # 2 of Tayla's clan, but moved to delicious Todd
Sanctuary - 2 roles there too, Jack the Ripper n Bigfoot. That is versatility!
Supernatural - Allistir
+ lots more

//You can learn more about Christopher Heyerdahl. Reading is Fun!

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Man, this episode has got people buzzing around the net. Most like it, but there are also plenty of, "It's too depressing, Dean is whining too much (yes, you heard me correctly, he's whining, where is the show I fell in love with about brothers, and my personal favorite, 'Of course Uriel had to die. He's black and on this show it's a sin.' " You'd think Supernatural would get props for casting so many great black actors, especially out of Vancouver where everyone's white as the driven snow, but no. Must be the same people who constantly accuse nuBSG of being racist.

However, the majority at TWOP (roughly 70 percent) seemed to love how dark and sinister it was, and TWOP is the acid test of fandom. Score one for Kripke. Man, go to hell for 40 years, get tortured every day for 30, find out you started the apocalypse, and you're whining if you cry about it once in a while. Methinks some people still socialize their little boys to be a little too stoic. I know you were tortured for 30 years but quit crying you little wussy man!! Those third degree burns are only on half of your body!! Man up, crybaby!!!

So, Sam's eyes did turn black when he was driving to rescue Dean, right? I know I'm not imagining things. I love bad Sam.

 

[mswood]

I don't know DOrian. I mean I freeze frame and advance frame by frame, and its hard to tell. It could just be the lighting.

I mean in the Dean scene right after his entire eye (whites and all) go black), but I am sure its lighting in that one. Even going back to some first season episodes, the darker lighting scme make it very easy for their color to disappear.

Though for arguments sake his eyes do change color. What color would you as a viewer prefer and which color would kill Dean the most. Black or yellow. THe black looks better (though again lighting makes it really subjective, unless the whites of his eyes go black). But on a character level, yellow would send Dean over the edge.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Yellow. Definitely yellow. They were looking yellow in "Sex and Violence" when Sammy was staring at the mirror in the hotel room after Dean blew him off during their last phone call when he wouldn't tell Sam where he was. Sam got a great big heaping helping of positive reinforcement by saving Dean and Cas with his powers. No way he's quitting.

 

[mswood]

On the color of the actor issue, hell I am just so pleased that most of them (one exception) have been supremely talented and brought so much to their roles. From Missouri, to Whack Job GOrdon (Damn still miss him but what a fucking awesome character), to Castiel. Thats three great characters.

And yes the people who bitch about Dean being broken...Get over it. Though thank God (and I can't believe I am typing this) they do tend to give us a light hearted episode after a run of dark ones (and seriously since we game back in January they have all been exceptionally bleak.

To the concerns about the brothers being together, that is one I actually do share. I love that bond, its what kept me in to the show through the first half of the first season, and through any other rough patch the show has had. I can handle them being apart, and having different goals, objectives, and even being enemies. But I don't know how I will react if thats how the show ends. It might be realistic and very appropriate, but I want that bond to survive unto their deaths.

 

[mswood]

Oh, and I have been out of the loop this last week, how many preemptions do we get for this episode, any ideas?

 

[mswood]

Yellow. Definitely yellow. They were looking yellow in "Sex and Violence" when Sammy was staring at the mirror in the hotel room after Dean blew him off during their last phone call when he wouldn't tell Sam where he was. Sam got a great big heaping helping of positive reinforcement by saving Dean and Cas with his powers. No way he's quitting.

They have certainly played into the yellow, and while I don't think its visually as pleasing (He looks so smoking hot with the eyes fully black), I also hope they go yellow (if they go there). Because on a character and story front thats will hit harder.

On Sam and Castiel, the only thing I think that was missing in that scene is not once does Sam make a point of what Allistar did to Dean. ANd I think that was missing. Look at how much he HATES Lilith, I mean hates Lilith. In my opinion more then his feelings towards Azazel. HE should have that same seething hatred to Allistar for what he did to Dean both body and soul. I wanted, I think I needed to see Sam verbally let us see that. Something to show that yes he's really going there with his abilities, but he is doing it for what he sees as the right reasons.

But even without that, those scenes were great. All three actors did a great job there.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Wow, they are really hitting it hard. This was the most arc-intensive show since "In the Beginning." Phenomenal, intense stuff. I'm feeling a lot more confident about his arc than I have in some time.

Amazing how Sam and Dean were barely in this episode. This was like the Castiel-Uriel-Alistair-Anna show. And yet massive weight on what our boys did do in this episode.

While everything that Alistair had to say was fascinating, I still think this Godfather accent they've saddled the character with was a mistake. It makes it very hard to tell what he's saying sometimes.

But at least it's a consistent point of characterisation across his various bodies. The same cannot be said of Ruby alas. I simply cannot believe that this is the same character as the one in season 3. While I don't wish to continue loading the hatred onto this season's actress, I really do wish they'd been able to keep the season 3 actress, or at least someone who could make it feel like the same person.

And Sam is a vampire now? Yeesh. He's taking more and more demon blood into his own bloodstream - was this Azazel's plan all along? It certainly seems like it.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Oh, and I have been out of the loop this last week, how many preemptions do we get for this episode, any ideas?

None. Post season conference tournaments are over. The Big Dance is carried exclusively on CBS.

Azazel's plan all along? I don't know. It seems more as if Lilith took advantage of an opportunity once Azazel was gone. God isn't God anymore. I am proof of that. That line by Uriel struck me like lightning. I'm surprised the council for American Family Viewing or some such group isn't all over this show asking for boycotts. The CW should be so lucky to get the publicity.

 

[DS9Continuing]

The weird thing is, I watch this show on a Canadian channel called JoyTV, which is a completely Christian up-with-God channel. Not that I follow that stuff, it's just where I watch the show. But I am amazed that they show it, considering some of the potentially controversial themes it covers. I suspect they just heard "Oh, a show that has angels in it? We want that!"

Guess they didn't realise they were getting torture, demon-fucking and suicidal teddy bears at the same time.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

No, it's a little Touched by an Angel wannabe. Very wholesome. All the real heroes have sexual intercourse with an angel babe in the back seat of their classic cars.