Now there's a theory.
Supernatural 4x16 "On the Head of a Pin" SPOILER discussion thread
- Thread starter Dorian Thompson
- Start date
Now there's a theory.
yeah i wonder how far into the old testament they would actually go with this show.
So who's going to play Gabriel and Michael? Casting suggestions? 
john travolta and chistopher walken
Yeah, but Othello, who's to say Alistair wasn't a lying sack of shit about John? He knows how fragile Dean is psychologically at this point. Talking about John suffering and Dean not measuring up is just the thing to break Dean. Alistair's a naughty demon. He knows.
Oh, Ben Edlund wrote this episode. That's a testament to what a coup it was to get him on staff. He also wrote "Nightshifter." They should let him write serious episodes more often.
Oh.. but as anyone knows who has a dark side to them know
the truth ALWAYS a much more lethal way to crush a person's spirit than a lie. Not to emntion nothing I have seen in this series leads me to believe that Dean or Sam comes close to measuring up to their dad.John did have his strengths, that's for sure. He was the most single minded SOB who ever lived. I guess he wasn't righteous enough to be the first man to shed blood. Two many people threatened to shoot him before he died. 
Bobby, Daniel Elkins, Bill Harvelle's ghost after John got him exposed and torn to ribbons by the hell spawn.....my theory is that Sam's the last seal and that Dean is the only one who can do anything about it because of his and Sam's unique relationship and history. John, obsessed bastard though he could be, probably wouldn't have been able to bring himself to off one of his children, and he wasn't close enough to either of them emotionally to talk them off a Lucifer ladened ledge.
Bobby, Daniel Elkins, Bill Harvelle's ghost after John got him exposed and torn to ribbons by the hell spawn.....my theory is that Sam's the last seal and that Dean is the only one who can do anything about it because of his and Sam's unique relationship and history. John, obsessed bastard though he could be, probably wouldn't have been able to bring himself to off one of his children, and he wasn't close enough to either of them emotionally to talk them off a Lucifer ladened ledge.
After watching it again, I think Alister was probably telling the truth about John. Dean and John are different in several ways.
John was much more single minded in his obsession, probably close to a little crazy about it (not quite nut job Gordon but close). And John in hell still had his obsession. Stopping the demon that killed Mary.
Dean while a great hunter (like his Dad) has always been more into it just to be saving lives. THis is after all the one character that thought if going after YED was going to harm more of his family then it wasn't worth it. John didn't share that belief (he at least would have thrown himself into the abyss after it).
Dean didn't have anything really to hold onto himself. John still had his quest for vengeance.
As for being the righteous man in hell to break. I don't think I see John that way. His hunting was a means to an end, the end of YED. Everything else was just gravy. While for Dean it was different YED actions was the catalyst that made him want to help and save others, but YED wasn't his primary focus.
John was much more single minded in his obsession, probably close to a little crazy about it (not quite nut job Gordon but close). And John in hell still had his obsession. Stopping the demon that killed Mary.
Dean while a great hunter (like his Dad) has always been more into it just to be saving lives. THis is after all the one character that thought if going after YED was going to harm more of his family then it wasn't worth it. John didn't share that belief (he at least would have thrown himself into the abyss after it).
Dean didn't have anything really to hold onto himself. John still had his quest for vengeance.
As for being the righteous man in hell to break. I don't think I see John that way. His hunting was a means to an end, the end of YED. Everything else was just gravy. While for Dean it was different YED actions was the catalyst that made him want to help and save others, but YED wasn't his primary focus.
I also believe that Sam will have some huge part in the final seal. And I think besides actually killing Sam (because lets face it anyone could kill Sam), Dean might be the only person who can reach Sam in a non lethal way.
This is certainly true of Dean over John. Sam loves his father, but his natural deep down core reaction to John is to go against anything John says or does. I don't think John would have any real chance at reaching Sam. Dean on the other hand is better suiting then anyone in reaching Sam. He is and has been Sam best friend, his parents, his brother, his protecter, and his compass. In fact really the only aspect that Dean hasn't been is Jess's role as lover. But just as the siren gave Dean what he wants most out of life,a brother. It was the same with Sam (which is funny because it took a while for me to realize that it was the same for Sam as it was for Dean).
Sam's deep in to the core reaction to Dean is to head him. Nt in the way that Dean mindlessly heads John, but knowing that over the decades Dean absolute primary goal is to protect him at all costs.
This is certainly true of Dean over John. Sam loves his father, but his natural deep down core reaction to John is to go against anything John says or does. I don't think John would have any real chance at reaching Sam. Dean on the other hand is better suiting then anyone in reaching Sam. He is and has been Sam best friend, his parents, his brother, his protecter, and his compass. In fact really the only aspect that Dean hasn't been is Jess's role as lover. But just as the siren gave Dean what he wants most out of life,a brother. It was the same with Sam (which is funny because it took a while for me to realize that it was the same for Sam as it was for Dean).
Sam's deep in to the core reaction to Dean is to head him. Nt in the way that Dean mindlessly heads John, but knowing that over the decades Dean absolute primary goal is to protect him at all costs.
In total agreement, mswood. On all points.
Oh.. but as anyone knows who has a dark side to them know
It's why I believe him here. As to measuring up to John. Thats a different story. In passion for others, I think both have surpassed him, especially Dean. In his single mindedness, I don't know. Both brothers have shown how far they are willing to go for their wants. Those wants are just not the same wants John had.
John's primary goal was ending YED, he almost let his kid die rather then keep going after him.
Dean's primary goal protect Sammy. I don't think he ever let anything take over that, yet.
For Sam he has had three. First being revenge on YED demon, 2nd not losing himself to his fate, and 3 saving Dean (and getting revenge).
The first, he pushed it aside when Dean brought home the cost of it (the possibility and eventual reality of losing family). All of 2nd season scared shitless about losing himself and though it costs him his own life he was strong and remained Sam. But afterwards...
With the threat to Dean in season three we saw how far Sam would go to save Dean, from the willingness to kill strangers, to wanting to became an immortal organ thief, to this season literally willing to consume the one aspect of his existence that he hates beyond measure. He has shown a willingness to go to any real length for Dean (to what probably is going to be a huge personal cost to himself).
I'm not really sure about it. Sam's power is growing, quickly. At this point, he's stronger than any demon, and more versatile than any angel that we know of. At the rate he is going, it's only a matter of time before no one would be able to kill him, unless they were able to get him to let his guard down.
What I meant is Sam is mortal. He can die anyway that we can. From crossing the street and getting run over, to any of the numerous ways Dean died.
Yes his ability to be an offensive weapon against demons has grown dramatically as has his resistance to the ability of demonic attacks. We have seen nothing that prevents demons from using conventional means to harm him.
As for Angels, well we have no knowledge that he has any resistance to their abilities or any way of offensively harming him.
chistopher walken
YES! As soon as Uriel mentioned going against God, I was like "The Producers have seen The Prophecy Series!".
Now, while I think that Sam is Lucifer (and it's his personality that will be freed), if they go with another actor to play Lucifer I hope to Christ (or Anti-Christ in this case
) that they go with Viggo Mortensen -- never has ther been a better devil proformer.Viggo Mortensen & Christopher Walken on Supernatural... Urgh, I think I just made a mess of myself
.John Glover? From Smallville? 
Why? I assumed the Padalecki would get the task of playing Lucifer if he indeed rises.
Why? I assumed the Padalecki would get the task of playing Lucifer if he indeed rises.Ohhh. That was him? He must haven absorbed some of the Smallville mediocrity blahs. I didn't even recognize the man as the same actor. That was him in Brimstone, wasn't it? As long as none of the Smallville writers followed him to the set that might work.
He must haven absorbed some of the Smallville mediocrity blahs. I didn't even recognize the man as the same actor. That was him in Brimstone, wasn't it? As long as none of the Smallville writers followed him to the set that might work. 