It doesn't hurt to occasionally have one's expectations challenged rather than humored by a narrative.
Spoilers "Superman & Lois": The Fourth and Final Season
- Thread starter The Realist
- Start date
Eh, I prefer "humored by a narrative" - I have my expectations challenged in real life to boot, thank you very much. ^^
I don't think every story needs to end with a death, but sometimes, they do. The trick is knowing the difference.
S&L decided it wasn't going to be a story about living, it was going to be a story about life, which was really built into the premise of this being "Superman: The Later Years," where all the youthful, flashy stuff that's the typical comic-book storytelling phase was in the past, and we were seeing what these characters were like after they'd grown up, and were into midlife.
I'd say that and the callback to Luthor's ridiculous prison-domination episode (even the human chair!) were the big unforced errors of an otherwise-exemplary finale. It might've been hard to do with how sentimental the tone was, but I would've just moved to Clark's spirit watching his body and the boys in a cut.
I'm sure there were limits of time and structure, but I was really hoping to see both sets of parents, too. Both because the show's always been a little weird about how familiar the family is with Space-Dad and Space-Mom (which makes sense, because it's an action/adventure show and they're holograms who live in a crystal fortress who can provide exposition, so they're the ones we see), whereas I always want Clark to be a little more distant from them than he is with Earth-Dad and Earth-Mom. I feel like seeing the four of them all together would've put a nice button on that, plus the surrealism of two old people in flowing leather super-robes in the middle of a farmhouse in a heartwarming pose with two incredibly normal old people.
I guess it just fell by the wayside after it was introduced (maybe it was supposed to just be a red herring so we'd think he might genuinely be permanently dead but still on the show?), but I was kind of assuming that Clark would've remembered the five minutes he spent being a hologram, given the other holograms seemed to be "live" up to when their originals died, so I figured the connection would go both ways while Clark's body was in suspended animation.
That would've admittedly killed the mood to bring it up, though.
S&L decided it wasn't going to be a story about living, it was going to be a story about life, which was really built into the premise of this being "Superman: The Later Years," where all the youthful, flashy stuff that's the typical comic-book storytelling phase was in the past, and we were seeing what these characters were like after they'd grown up, and were into midlife.
I'd say that and the callback to Luthor's ridiculous prison-domination episode (even the human chair!) were the big unforced errors of an otherwise-exemplary finale. It might've been hard to do with how sentimental the tone was, but I would've just moved to Clark's spirit watching his body and the boys in a cut.
I'm sure there were limits of time and structure, but I was really hoping to see both sets of parents, too. Both because the show's always been a little weird about how familiar the family is with Space-Dad and Space-Mom (which makes sense, because it's an action/adventure show and they're holograms who live in a crystal fortress who can provide exposition, so they're the ones we see), whereas I always want Clark to be a little more distant from them than he is with Earth-Dad and Earth-Mom. I feel like seeing the four of them all together would've put a nice button on that, plus the surrealism of two old people in flowing leather super-robes in the middle of a farmhouse in a heartwarming pose with two incredibly normal old people.
I guess it just fell by the wayside after it was introduced (maybe it was supposed to just be a red herring so we'd think he might genuinely be permanently dead but still on the show?), but I was kind of assuming that Clark would've remembered the five minutes he spent being a hologram, given the other holograms seemed to be "live" up to when their originals died, so I figured the connection would go both ways while Clark's body was in suspended animation.
That would've admittedly killed the mood to bring it up, though.
The unique and wonderful thing about this version of Clark and Lois is that it tells the whole story of their lives as a couple, from the earliest days to the very end.
The scene of Lois's first on-camera interview with Superman is always going to be one of my favorite moments.
When that final voice-over started, I was afraid we were going to get some generic comic book scene of his holographic self floating in the Fortress in place of his Kryptonian ancestors, telling the story to some super-costumed descendents.
The scene of Lois's first on-camera interview with Superman is always going to be one of my favorite moments.
When that final voice-over started, I was afraid we were going to get some generic comic book scene of his holographic self floating in the Fortress in place of his Kryptonian ancestors, telling the story to some super-costumed descendents.
True, but I'm not sure it needed to take that later life all the way to its ending. Just showing Clark and Lois becoming grandparents and watching their sons thrive would've been enough closure for me.
One happy thing I wish they'd touched on: Jon and Jordan having lots of kids and grandkids mean that the Kryptonian people have a future again, even if it's hybridized with humans. That's something that I'd think would be important to Clark, and I wish they'd acknowledged it.
Oh, yes, that. I was relieved that the prison sequence didn't lead to Mannheim killing Luthor, but having him bully and abuse Luthor the same way Luthor abused others is a juvenile, petty, and un-Superman-worthy definition of comeuppance. It also cheapens Mannheim, who was so, so much better, nobler, and richer an antagonist than this one-note mad-dog Luthor ever was.
I've always thought of the holograms as just advanced personality simulations. Clark didn't become the hologram, the hologram was just a copy of his personality and memories. I guess the Fortress could've downloaded the hologram's memories into Clark's brain when he was revived, but I don't see why it would've bothered, since he hardly did anything.
Come to that, I assume Holo-Clark still exists in the Fortress to be a guide to the Super-Sons once Clark has passed on.
That is nicely put. Yes.
The entire series is Clark telling the story of his life at the moment of his death:
Ah, and Hoechlin's "Clark Kent" in the scene at the Planet where he meets Lois is Christopher Reeve's "Clark Kent" to a tee.*
*Okay, except that he never pushes his glasses up the bridge of his nose.
Ah, and Hoechlin's "Clark Kent" in the scene at the Planet where he meets Lois is Christopher Reeve's "Clark Kent" to a tee.*
*Okay, except that he never pushes his glasses up the bridge of his nose.
Also there's still the Arrowverse Superman and Lois who have a Kara that exists on their world. They have many adventures to come so maybe in the future someone can write a comic book series continuing their adventures
So as we mourn this Superman there's still other worlds/ stories we can imagine with the other verse
I can understand people being upset the show the didn't end with a 'more adventures to come', or even just showing Clark 'retiring' and then his kids and the Steel's continuing on.
But an important thing to keep in mind. This was "a" Superman story. It's one version out of an infinite (or whatever they decide the amount of universes there is) worlds out there.
It's the story the creators wanted. It was Superman and Lois. It was their story and they wanted to tell their story from beginning to end and that's what they did. So I respect that choice.
In this universe/world. The last son of Krypton came to Earth, was raised by adopted parents in Smallville. Married Lois Lane, had twins, the lived a life together. She got breast cancer and overcame it. He died fighting Doomsday and got a human heart which put him on a path to losing his powers and living a human life. Lois had cancer return and died before him. He lived on some years without her before his human heart gave out.
In another world another Superman gave up his powers to become mortal. In another world another Superman lived for centuries. In another world another Superman outlived every person on Earth. Different worlds, different stories.
But an important thing to keep in mind. This was "a" Superman story. It's one version out of an infinite (or whatever they decide the amount of universes there is) worlds out there.
It's the story the creators wanted. It was Superman and Lois. It was their story and they wanted to tell their story from beginning to end and that's what they did. So I respect that choice.
In this universe/world. The last son of Krypton came to Earth, was raised by adopted parents in Smallville. Married Lois Lane, had twins, the lived a life together. She got breast cancer and overcame it. He died fighting Doomsday and got a human heart which put him on a path to losing his powers and living a human life. Lois had cancer return and died before him. He lived on some years without her before his human heart gave out.
In another world another Superman gave up his powers to become mortal. In another world another Superman lived for centuries. In another world another Superman outlived every person on Earth. Different worlds, different stories.
I'm a little concerned, for some reason, that James Gunn might retrench and return to the "triangle for two" setup, instead of the more modern renditions where Lois is in on the secret pretty much from the get-go. Immediately dispensing with any such shenanigans between her and Clark was the single best narrative choice Zack Snyder made.
I mean, I suppose it's possible to make that dynamic work for a bit, depending on how you play it, but it's dicey. Guess we'll find out in about eight months what Gunn does, and whether he gets it right.
BTW, just to bring up something besides the epilogue.
What exactly was that flash/bang Jordan did to start Jonathan's heart?
Also. Do you think Jordan and Jonathan adopted any kind of superhero names while working alongside Superman, Steel, and Starlight? Or just went by their known identities that point?
What exactly was that flash/bang Jordan did to start Jonathan's heart?
Also. Do you think Jordan and Jonathan adopted any kind of superhero names while working alongside Superman, Steel, and Starlight? Or just went by their known identities that point?
The Fraternals.
I wasn't "upset," I would've just preferred a different approach. I get what they were going for, but it didn't entirely work for me.
No need to remind everyone of the obvious. We all know that this was just one Superman story out of many. Not because of "alternate universes," but because it's all just made-up stories and any story can be told many different ways.
But what other stories do is beside the point; what matters to a given story is what that story has to say and how it makes you feel while you're experiencing it. And I think ending a story with "And then the hero died and went to heaven" is just moving the timeline a bit too far forward, and is pretty hokey to boot.
It was just his heat vision running out of control and releasing in a single blast. I guess the idea was that it shocked Jon's heart into restarting. Or, I could speculate -- Kryptonians are powered by solar energy, and heat vision would be a release of that stored energy, so maybe it was the energy influx that restored Jonathan.
I should hope so; it's lame to be a superhero without a code name. I don't know what they would've gone by, though.
![Gd1pD-0XwAAN19t[1].jpg](https://www.trekbbs.com/data/attachments/42/42584-ffbb43dd887c370d51f13b61631084e4.jpg "Gd1pD-0XwAAN19t[1].jpg")
I found the ending to be a great cap to the fairly real and sensitive way they dealt with Lois' cancer in season three. Cancer often wins in real life, a whole hell of a lot. And having Lois die before Clark also showed that her death did not, will not destroy him. (I am not fond of stories where her death causes Clark to "go bad".) His life was never the same without her, but he kept going. Kept living, kept loving. And whatever is actually happening in "reality" in the final sequence, we get to see them reunited as we knew them.
Plus, it was cool to see Steel wearing the cape finally.
Edit: Now my nervous wait for the Blu-ray begins.
Plus, it was cool to see Steel wearing the cape finally.
Edit: Now my nervous wait for the Blu-ray begins.
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