Spoilers Superman (2025) Grade and Discussion

[Captaindemotion]

For my money, this was the most unashamedly fun and crowd-pleasing Superman film since II. There is a lot that I like about both SR and MOS (not least of all the leading men) but both films were in their own way somewhat dour and sombre. SR was overly slow, with an anticlimactic ending while MOS went over the top to compensate.

This one, while not perfect (I voted A, but not A+) had a leading man at least as good as Cavill or Routh and surrounded him with a great cast, especially Lois (of whom I’ve been a fan since Mrs Maisel, Guy and (best of all) Mr Terrific (could’ve used more Wendell Pearce, though) and put him in a universe I immediately wanted to see more of (something that SR in particular never really did for me - when WB’s spin later retconned it as a farewell to the Reeve films, I thought “fair enough, really”).

Most movies are too long now; we watched Sinners last weekend and while I loved it, I also felt it to be another example of a filmmaker so in love with the world he’s created that he can’t bear to trim it, even for the good of storytelling. At 1:55, Superman zipped along nicely and didn’t outstay its welcome.

Gripes? Wasn’t a huge fan of the twist about his parents but kudos to sticking to it and not making it a devious plot by Lex. Interesting that Joker and Batman were similarly prepared to tamper with the backstory of the hitherto-heroic Thomas Wayne. And I don’t know if I need to see yet more scenes of skyscrapers etc collapsing(but does go with the genre TBF).

Wasn’t spoiled for the cameos - this Supergirl is clearly going to be different from Helen Slater and Melissa Benoist.

Here’s to more of the new DCU, Gunnverse or whatever people want to call it.

 

[JD]

The official name is the DCU.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Just recast Gal Gadot and be done with it. She was awesome in the role.

We are 5 years away from a Wonder Woman movie, which means that we are 12 years away from Wonder Woman 3.

To be safe, they need to scour Nickelodeon to find some child still young enough for the part, when the time finally comes for the movie to be filmed, down the road.

 

[The Realist]

Guy is one of only 4 DC heroes who has red hair: Guy Gardner (Green Lantern), Wally West (Flash), Roy Harper (Arsenal/Red Arrow), and, I think, Ralph Dibny (Elongated Man).

My knowledge is hardly encyclopedic, but Barbara Gordon, at least, would like a word.

Actually, make that two, off the top of my head: Lana Lang also currently has superpowers, and does her thing as Superwoman.

 

[oktay]

Just recast Gal Gadot and be done with it. She was awesome in the role.

Her acting is terrible. I think she's one of the worst actresses in Hollywood right now. Sometimes I can't decide who's worse, Millie Bobby Brown or Gal Gadot.

 

[oktay]

We are 5 years away from a Wonder Woman movie, which means that we are 12 years away from Wonder Woman 3.

After 'that' terrible second movie, it would be stupid to make a third movie even if it was years later. Personally, I would always prefer to watch reboot movies with different and great actors. Gal Gadot was a terrible actress than to watch any work.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Guy is one of only 4 DC heroes who has red hair: Guy Gardner (Green Lantern), Wally West (Flash), Roy Harper (Arsenal/Red Arrow), and, I think, Ralph Dibny (Elongated Man).

My knowledge is hardly encyclopedic, but Barbara Gordon, at least, would like a word.

Actually, make that two, off the top of my head: Lana Lang also currently has superpowers, and does her thing as Superwoman.

Poison Ivy is the hero of her own story (especially when it comes to environmental issues) and she's pretty heroic in Harley Quinn.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Poison Ivy is the hero of her own story (especially when it comes to environmental issues) and she's pretty heroic in Harley Quinn.

Also Batwoman/Kate Kane. Lightning Lad, Light Lass and Sun Boy from the LSH. Looker from the Outsiders. The Golden Age Atom. Nuklon/Atom Smasher. Orion of the New Gods.

 

[Mudd]

James Gunn on "The Message:"

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[rocketscientist]

My knowledge is hardly encyclopedic, but Barbara Gordon, at least, would like a word.

Actually, make that two, off the top of my head: Lana Lang also currently has superpowers, and does her thing as Superwoman.

You're right! I stand corrected.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Not surprising that he confirms it’s real. It has a point people! Changing it later completely undermines its purpose in this story. Some fans refuse to accept new approaches they do not like. Also there is misguided perception every thing has a hidden meaning or future twist waiting to be revealed. The point is he chooses to be Superman not because he is fulfilling some Kryptonian destiny.

 

[rocketscientist]

Also Batwoman/Kate Kane. Lightning Lad, Light Lass and Sun Boy from the LSH. Looker from the Outsiders. The Golden Age Atom. Nuklon/Atom Smasher. Orion of the New Gods.

You guys are all totally right. I guess the gingers are well represented.

Still, my favorite red heads were always Wally and Guy.

 

[rocketscientist]

For my money, this was the most unashamedly fun and crowd-pleasing Superman film since II. There is a lot that I like about both SR and MOS (not least of all the leading men) but both films were in their own way somewhat dour and sombre. SR was overly slow, with an anticlimactic ending while MOS went over the top to compensate.

This one, while not perfect (I voted A, but not A+) had a leading man at least as good as Cavill or Routh and surrounded him with a great cast, especially Lois (of whom I’ve been a fan since Mrs Maisel, Guy and (best of all) Mr Terrific (could’ve used more Wendell Pearce, though) and put him in a universe I immediately wanted to see more of (something that SR in particular never really did for me - when WB’s spin later retconned it as a farewell to the Reeve films, I thought “fair enough, really”).

Most movies are too long now; we watched Sinners last weekend and while I loved it, I also felt it to be another example of a filmmaker so in love with the world he’s created that he can’t bear to trim it, even for the good of storytelling. At 1:55, Superman zipped along nicely and didn’t outstay its welcome.

Gripes? Wasn’t a huge fan of the twist about his parents but kudos to sticking to it and not making it a devious plot by Lex. Interesting that Joker and Batman were similarly prepared to tamper with the backstory of the hitherto-heroic Thomas Wayne. And I don’t know if I need to see yet more scenes of skyscrapers etc collapsing(but does go with the genre TBF).

Wasn’t spoiled for the cameos - this Supergirl is clearly going to be different from Helen Slater and Melissa Benoist.

Here’s to more of the new DCU, Gunnverse or whatever people want to call it.

I think The Batman was largely inspired by Geoff Johns' Earth 1 Batman arc, and, to a lesser degree, The Long Haloween.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Superman’s Dark Legacy – When Jor-El Wanted His Son to Rule Earth - Superman Homepage

James Gunn's 2025 "Superman" film has sparked controversy with its revelation that Jor-El and Lara believed their son should conquer Earth, calling its people "simple and profoundly confused; weak of mind, spirit, and body." While this twist has shocked many fans, it's far from the first time...

www.supermanhomepage.com

Here is a nice list of previous versions of Jor- El who wanted his son to rule Earth. I think there are more but it’s a good start.

 

[rocketscientist]

Another possibility would be that the message we saw is what exists in the Kryptonian computers that Superman has onsite at the Fortress of Solitude, at one time corrupted but now recovered. However, this is not what Jor-El and Lara ever said in history. The out would be that the message that came to Earth with Kal-El in the first place was false.

In other words, the out would be that what we saw is authentic, because the message was only ever that, but it is not a genuine recording of anything Superman's parents ever said.

Personally, I'm not emotionally invested one way or another. But generally speaking, I like new takes, if the essential elements aren't undermined.

Looking back to Superman (1978), the climax depends upon Superman disobeying Jor-El. We aren't presented with a malicious Jor-El, but we are presented with one whose ideals not to interfere in human history are beliefs that Kal-El ultimately rejects.

So, the idea of Superman being in disagreement with his parents' vision of who and what he should be, or at least his father's, and forging his own path, is not a new idea at all.

That's essentially what I was saying. The initial message was false, or manipulated by a Kryptonian AI right before Superman's spaceship was launched. Again, two possible Kryptonian AIs exist: Brainiac (using one origin, it is Kryptonian) or the Eradicator, which is Kryptonian and whose mission was always to preserve the Kryptonian race and culture. Taking over the world, killing dissenters, and taking a harem would certainly align with the Eradicator's main mission. It even tried to brainwash Superman to make him mentally into a Kryptonian in one of the post-Crisis Superman stories.

As for your second point, you're right, but Superman only interfered in history to save one person, Lois Lane. But, yes, it was a transgression of what Jor-El requested him to do.

 

[rocketscientist]

Superman’s Dark Legacy – When Jor-El Wanted His Son to Rule Earth - Superman Homepage

James Gunn's 2025 "Superman" film has sparked controversy with its revelation that Jor-El and Lara believed their son should conquer Earth, calling its people "simple and profoundly confused; weak of mind, spirit, and body." While this twist has shocked many fans, it's far from the first time...

www.supermanhomepage.com

Here is a nice list of previous versions of Jor- El who wanted his son to rule Earth. I think there are more but it’s a good start.

Thanks! I never watched Smallville, but I'd read about Jor-El's depiction in that show. I also had some awareness of the new Superman cartoon. I see they also had the Byrne/Post-Crisis version of Jor-El, which I mentioned before. And the latest, Mr. Oz, I'm just reading that arc (I am way behind in my comics reading, years really).

So, yes, there is some precedent, particularly I guess with Smallville and the cartoon, I think, and, possibly, Byrne's.

All the others though, have always shown Jor El and Lara to be benign. They worried about the safety of their son but they never asked him to conquer earth, kill dissenters, and create a harem.

 

[theenglish]

We are 5 years away from a Wonder Woman movie, which means that we are 12 years away from Wonder Woman 3.

To be safe, they need to scour Nickelodeon to find some child still young enough for the part, when the time finally comes for the movie to be filmed, down the road.

I understand that Gunn is fast tracking Wonder Woman.

 

[Guy Gardener]

After 'that' terrible second movie, it would be stupid to make a third movie even if it was years later. Personally, I would always prefer to watch reboot movies with different and great actors. Gal Gadot was a terrible actress than to watch any work.

You misunderstand.

There will conceivably never be a DCEU Wonder Woman III.

But because of how slowly these things move, DCU Wonder Woman 1 may not happen until 2030, DCU Wonder Woman 2 may screen in 2033, and DCU Wonder Woman IIII has to meet it's final release in 2037.

In 2037 if Gal Godot, is still the primary Wonder Woman, even if she some how looks younger then, than she does today, good genes, what ever, Miss Gadot will be 52 years old, which is why they need to recast now in the past, and let than poor woman have a life and spend her millions.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I understand that Gunn is fast tracking Wonder Woman.

I watched Milly Alcock in the Australian sitcom Upright very recently (not really, but everything seems like it just happened) where she was playing a 12 year old breaking bad, who stole a car.

Perhaps weeks later Milly was being sexually molested by Doctor Who on House of the Dragon.

And now I'm supposed to be fine with seeing this adolescent (25? really? 25? She must have been 19 in Upright, but the character was still 12.) still blitzed returning home after a Hunter S Thompson-like long weekend under a Red Sun?

By the time they get around to making a Super girl Movie, MIlly will be almost 30, and I don't have to feel dirty about any wandering conflictions about how the actress is more girl than woman.

Aquaman 2 sucked.

 

[The Realist]

By the time they get around to making a Super girl Movie, MIlly will be almost 30, and I don't have to feel dirty about any wandering conflictions about how the actress is more girl than woman.

Uhm … they have already made a Supergirl movie. It’s in the can. It premieres next year. And Alcock was 24-25 years old during shooting (playing just-turned-21, if the film follows the source material on that point).

But your post is fun anyway.