Supergirl - Season Four

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Kai "the spy", Jul 17, 2018.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Although it's rarely that easy. The A.V. Club's review points out the problem with a subplot like that:

    It feels a bit Green Book-y, sanitizing racists as just misguided people who can come around after a single heartfelt talk. I mean, it works well for Supergirl's narrative of someone who can inspire peace and healing, but the way the guy was portrayed was far enough over the line that it's hard to buy that he was so easily redeemable.
     
  2. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I guess I can see that, but I don't think it's to bad here since it was just one guy, and we still have plenty of other people, like Lockwood, who are pretty much irredeemable at this point.
     
  3. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017

    Not to mention the compression of time you have to work with. This has long been a kind of flaw with tv. The idea you can solve a big problem within a hour. Not much you can do about it unless your going to a devote a long character arc to a person going through a change where he or she learns over time to become a better person. I would say it was just as unlikely the amesty act would be pulled after just one protest.

    Jason
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    It was the other way around -- Baker and Lockwood were talking about repealing the Amnesty Act before the protest. As was pointed out in dialogue, the executive branch shouldn't have been able to unilaterally revoke an act of Congress, but it's possible they planned to declare a state of emergency or somehow usurp the authority to revoke it. (I wish the episode had been clearer about that.) But the pro-alien shift in public opinion after the protest scared Baker and Lockwood into backing down and saying "It's Congress's place to decide this."
     
  5. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    California
    Lockwood's bit about deporting aliens back to where they came from reminded me of this old... fanfilm, I guess, from during the immigration debates back in the Bush years.



    "I'm afraid we're going to have to deport you."

    "To where? Krypton was destroyed."

    "The American government is very sympathetic to your situation, but the economic or... physical... condition of Krypton is not our concern."
     
  6. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Congress would be able to override a usurping of power by the President for the most part. I don't believe an executive order can override an actual law. And courts would put a stop to it as well. So this was a weak plot point based on writers who won't let the actual system's rules get in the way of the narrative they want to tell. Likewise, a VP would not be that different from the prior President, which also stretches credibility.
     
  7. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Austin
    That's what always irked me. It's also why I think Baker isn't what he seems as well..to the point where Ben Lockwood may not want to be in cahoots with if he knew whatever....
     
  8. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    standard orbit
    Congress can pass laws over the objection of the President only by two-thirds supermajority in each chamber. Anything less, and it's not happening.

    Court rulings take time, and moreover they require someone with standing to have filed a lawsuit, for the lawsuit to get ruled on. No lawsuit, no ruling; no standing, no lawsuit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_(law)
     
  9. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Location:
    Escaped from Delta Vega
    Yes, it was the showrunners' wish-fulfillment, details-of-the-issues-free story. The subject (and mature members of the audience) demand more than that kind of 30 minute cartoon, snap-your-fingers-and-its-done plotting.

    Historically, there have been differences, most notably the shift from Lincoln's proposals for a post-slavery, post-war nation (at the time of his death) were not carried out (in some cases, jettisoned) by his successor, Andrew Johnson.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  10. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Austin
    ^True. However, it still strikes odd that an alien would pick someone like Baker as VP...
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Baker strikes me as a political opportunist and sycophant who goes whichever way the wind's blowing, as long as it boosts his career.

    Then again, maybe he's like Joe Biden. Even though Biden was President Obama's VP and apparently a good friend of his, he has a problematical record on racial issues if you dig into his past.
     
  12. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Austin
    Yes. In the real world

    But in this DC-comics universe, my money is on Baker having some kind of agenda and/or past that one would only see in a show or movie based on the comics...
     
  13. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    An Aussie in Canukistan
    don't they say that politics is universal? Like many vice-presidential candidates baker was probably picked for what he could bring in terms of votes that any thing else and that's what Marsden needed.

    plus he might have been good at hiding his true intentions.
     
  14. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    True, but once a law is passed, the President cannot unilaterally repeal it. It would take a majority in both chambers in Congress for the President to get that done.

    True, but sometimes they can happen faster when it becomes a big national issue that has a time pressure. An illegal action by the president could be brought to court fairly quickly in federal court, and an injunction can be issued.

    They also demand writers have some semblance of knowledge on the subject that is being written about, including civics. It requires intelligent writing.

    The fact that you have to go back 150 years kind of makes the point. Today, VPs tend to be chosen not just for what they can deliver at the polls, but for how well they can work for the President. You wouldn't see the democrat nominee offer Ted Cruz the job as a running mate. And you wouldn't see Ted Cruz offer the job to Elizabeth Warren. There is no way a VP would be that different than the previous president.

    If anything, a VP would be more to the right or to the left depending on which party is in power, but it's doubtful you would get someone on the extreme other side.

    It makes no sense at all, especially with modern day vetting. You would think that Marsdin would specifically look for someone that would be very pro alien when making this choice.


    It is absolutely possible for a President to be an opportunist who governs by the polls. Bill Clinton did that, and it was not the worst strategy. However, Baker is taking some very extreme positions.

    One thing the show doesn't cover is how the general population feels. We know how the main characters feel, but what about the population? Is it equally divided? Is it overwhelmingly anti-alien?

    If Baker is as you say, he would be following the polls, and for Baker to be this anti-alien in public, the polls would have to be uniting the entire country. The writers seem to paint a different environment that is more like most issues today, where there is serious division.

    If there is serious division, then Baker is making zero sense, because given Marsdin's election, his political base should be pro-alien, and he would be committing political suicide.
     
  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    standard orbit
    OK, now I have a clearer idea what you're talking about. Sorry, it wasn't clear before what you were specifically referring to.

    The plan was to get Congress to repeal the Alien Amnesty Act. They talked about the "drive" to get it repealed and "support" for its repeal. They said (sorry, there's no speaker information in this transcript):

    "Tell me Ben Lockwood cannot repeal a congressional act.
    No, but he can try and sway the will of the people."​

    https://www.springfieldspringfield....pts.php?tv-show=supergirl-2015&episode=s04e14

    There was no mention of any Executive Order to repeal it.
     
  16. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    California
    That's Kara and J'onn speaking, respectively.
     
    CorporalCaptain likes this.
  17. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Location:
    North America
    In case you didn't watch "Kelly and Ryan" yesterday, here's an interview with Jon Cryer and a Supergirl clip we (or at minimum "me") hasn't seen before. (go to minute 28:12 for Lex clip)



    Hopefully Lena is as untrusting with Lex as she is with her mother.
     
  18. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017

    That was pretty good. A little off topic but I thought Micheal Straham did that job?

    Jason
     
  19. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Location:
    North America
    ^^ He quit nearly 2 years ago to join GMA and now he and a former co-anchor of the view have their own morning show.
     
  20. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Location:
    Escaped from Delta Vega
    Agreed, but that is nearly impossible when a single-minded agenda drives stories. The biggest thing holding this immigration plot together is the strength of Sam Witwer's performances (with the exception of this recent episode, where he was more of a caricature), and how a few characters actually speak to the legitimate concerns of the human population.

    Ah, while that makes sense, the showrunners needed a boogeyman/Trump surrogate for their immigration plot, so her VP had to be the complete opposite when she would never select a running mate standing in such opposition to her core beliefs and/or policies. Once she was ousted, the new president can do whatever he desires (as in the Andrew Johnson example), but in the selection of a running mate, there's no way the Marsdin character would have picked her polar opposite in Baker. But, there's that showrunner boogeyman business again....

    Haley, Lena and Alex have all expressed concerns that can stand in as the beliefs of the population. The showrunners will never fully explore that, as it poses too much of a sensible counter to the kind of soapboxing certain characters mount in every episode, which is an utterly unrealistic position to hold after their earth has suffered several alien attacks/invasions. Notice how most of the main characters never offer real solutions to the kinds of problems earth has faced.