Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2

[Reverend]

The way the show's been portraying Superman so far, I'm confident they can balance it right. It's good that they waited to show him, as the audience needs to get to know Kara first. Certainly they couldn't keep up the borderline silliness of avoiding him showing up for much longer. At this point they either have to straight up feature him in an episode, or just kill him off (maybe both), because the alternative is just silly.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah I really don't see this harming the show or detracting from Supergirl herself in any way. Obviously Superman is an iconic character with a commanding presence whenever he's on screen, but it's Benoist's charming performance that I enjoy watching most on this show, and her character and journey that I really want to follow. And I don't see that changing at all.

All this does is just get rid of the silly and distracting attempts to hide Superman from view.

You know what I just thought of? Hercules and Xena. Hercules was this great mythic hero that people have been telling stories about for literally thousands of years, such an iconic embodiment of strength and power that his name has actually become part of the language as an epithet for a strong man. Xena was a totally original character that had no mythological basis and appeared in only three Hercules episodes before getting her own spinoff. And yet Xena completely overshadowed Hercules in fame and popularity, outlived the parent show, had more episodes, and is now getting a reboot while Sorbo's Hercules has left little impact on the culture.

So there's no guarantee that Superman's presence in the show would overshadow Supergirl or threaten her popularity as a character. Just being the more established character doesn't guarantee dominance in the eyes of a modern audience. And maybe female heroes can even stimulate more intense excitement because they're a relatively untapped niche, so there's a hunger for it to be filled.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

You know what I just thought of? Hercules and Xena. Hercules was this great mythic hero that people have been telling stories about for literally thousands of years, such an iconic embodiment of strength and power that his name has actually become part of the language as an epithet for a strong man. Xena was a totally original character that had no mythological basis and appeared in only three Hercules episodes before getting her own spinoff. And yet Xena completely overshadowed Hercules in fame and popularity, outlived the parent show, had more episodes, and is now getting a reboot while Sorbo's Hercules has left little impact on the culture.

So there's no guarantee that Superman's presence in the show would overshadow Supergirl or threaten her popularity as a character. Just being the more established character doesn't guarantee dominance in the eyes of a modern audience. And maybe female heroes can even stimulate more intense excitement because they're a relatively untapped niche, so there's a hunger for it to be filled.

In fairness, Superman is a character that most people actually know, while Hercules is often barely more than a vaguely recognized name. And Xena was a bit more different from him than Supergirl is from Superman. But, it's true that there's no guarantee of anything.

 

[Christopher]

In fairness, Superman is a character that most people actually know, while Hercules is often barely more than a vaguely recognized name.

Whaaaaat???? A character that's been part of Western mythology for over two thousand years, who's been adapted in countless movie and television series (including three different films in 2014 alone), who's been a go-to movie role for generations of strongmen from Steve Reeves to Lou Ferrigno to Arnold Schwarzenegger to Dwayne Johnson, whose name is the "H" in "Shazam," who actually exists as a character in both DC and Marvel comics (not to mention Gold Key and Charlton), who has a whole constellation, at least one major geographical feature, a species of beetle, and a number of major corporations and aircraft types named after him, and whose name is actually in the dictionary as a word for "a man of outstanding strength or size," and you think he's "a vaguely recognized name"????

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Whaaaaat???? A character that's been part of Western mythology for over two thousand years, who's been adapted in countless movie and television series (including three different films in 2014 alone), who's been a go-to movie role for generations of strongmen from Steve Reeves to Lou Ferrigno to Arnold Schwarzenegger to Dwayne Johnson, whose name is the "H" in "Shazam," who actually exists as a character in both DC and Marvel comics (not to mention Gold Key and Charlton), who has a whole constellation, at least one major geographical feature, a species of beetle, and a number of major corporations and aircraft types named after him, and whose name is actually in the dictionary as a word for "a man of outstanding strength or size," and you think he's "a vaguely recognized name"????

I'm with you on this one, Christopher

 

[TheSeeker]

Yeah, I'd hardly say Hercules is only a vaguely recognized name.

 

[Reverend]

Hercules is unquestionably a *very* well know fictional character, but I think it's only fair to say that there's a difference between being well known and persistent in the (very!) long run and being popular in the here and now.

As it stands, Hercules is akin to the likes of Robin Hood and King Arthur. Famous, is still being used all over the place, but not exactly selling a huge amount of t-shirts just right now. Will still probably outlast most of the ones that are though, again in the long run.

 

[theenglish]

Not to mention recognized by all the fans of the highly popular YA Percy Jackson series.

Still these posts give me a great idea for a retail marketing campaign selling a property not subject to copyright.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I think Hercules has a similar standing as Robin Hood among people who are already inclined towards stories, mythology or history.

Among the general public? I think most people probably couldn't tell you anything more than that he's really strong. Superman is almost certainly better known, ime. Definitely back in the 90s.

 

[Kegg]

I think Hercules has a similar standing as Robin Hood among people who are already inclined towards stories, mythology or history.

As Superman would to people who aren't really into comic books. I wasn't aware his mother's name was Martha until it became an internet meme as a consequence of a movie I never saw, and I couldn't tell you a lot about him generally.

 

[Christopher]

I think Hercules has a similar standing as Robin Hood among people who are already inclined towards stories, mythology or history.

Among the general public? I think most people probably couldn't tell you anything more than that he's really strong. Superman is almost certainly better known, ime. Definitely back in the 90s.

Oh, come on. There have been hundreds of movies and comic books about Hercules, and there have been nearly as many television series featuring Hercules as there have been television series featuring Superman. He's ubiquitous in popular culture, not just the classics. Being ignorant about Hercules would require a truly staggering degree of cultural illiteracy, not only of history and myth, but of generations' worth of film, television, and comics.

 

[dahj]

Boy I tell you hwat, there's several of them millennial kids on my lawn right now doing memes, which is about the only way they become aware of anything these days.

Hercules ain't no meme material.

Does he even lift?

 

[Reverend]

If there hasn't been a major movie about him in the last 5-10 years, then I wouldn't be surprised if most people under 30 don't know much beyond recognising the name.
I'm old enough to remember the 90's TV show, the Disney movie and that badly dubbed thing with Schwarzenegger and yet (without looking it up) I could only describe him in the broadest of strokes. Olympian demi-god, father: Zeus, stepmother: Hera. Strangled snakes in the crib. Something about 12 trials. A golden fleece and a cyclops may have been in there somewhere...or was that Jason and the Argonauts?

Point is, I've had a fair degree of exposure to the material, but only the basics have really stuck. But then you can say the same about Superman. I suppose the difference is that in 100 years if you as kids about Hercules you're probably going to get the same response. If you as those same kids about Superman, they might not have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Or maybe they will. Who knows?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

whose name is the "H" in "Shazam," who actually exists as a character in both DC and Marvel comics (not to mention Gold Key and Charlton),

Comic readers are not the majority of the population. If you were talking about Shazam---or Captain Marvel during the Fawcett years, you might have more of a point, since the character's best selling years were during that period, so with a larger audience, his origin (meaning the Hercules part) would have a stronger hold in the culture.

who has a whole constellation, at least one major geographical feature, a species of beetle, and a number of major corporations and aircraft types named after him, and whose name is actually in the dictionary as a word for "a man of outstanding strength or size," and you think he's "a vaguely recognized name"????

You're forgetting that you're living in the new "Me" generation--only this time, is about second-by-second posting on social media, uploading videos of people in various stages of undressing/masturbation, and an obsession with the most current, disposable entertainment. Think about it: when late night talk shows or that Jesse Waters idiot from The O'Reilly Factor walk on the streets of anyplace and draw blank expressions when asking who the first president was (how many things in U.S. culture are tied to or named for Washington?!? Far more than Hercules, to be sure), or if or when we landed on the moon, I don't find it at all surprising for someone to say:

Hercules is often barely more than a vaguely recognized name.

.

Not surprised at all in this culture. But i'm betting they can tell you what Taylor Swift's shoe size is, or what Kanye's favorite bed position is on every other Thursday.

 

[JD]

The way the show's been portraying Superman so far, I'm confident they can balance it right. It's good that they waited to show him, as the audience needs to get to know Kara first. Certainly they couldn't keep up the borderline silliness of avoiding him showing up for much longer. At this point they either have to straight up feature him in an episode, or just kill him off (maybe both), because the alternative is just silly.

I was about to post pretty much the same thing.
It was smart of them to hold off on bringing Superman into the show and give time to really get Kara established before in him in as an active character. I think if they had brought him in early there would have been a pretty good chance he would have ended up overshadowing Supergirl, but I think she's done well enough now that people will continue to care about her even with her cousin around too.
I honestly doubted they were ever going to really bring him into the show, but now that they are, I'm curious to see how they handle him.

 

[TemporalFlux]

Yeah, I'd hardly say Hercules is only a vaguely recognized name.

I thought Hercules was introduced in the Eddie Murphy Nutty Professor movies. It's a mantra spoken to encourage obese children to eat more food.

 

[Thestral]

If there hasn't been a major movie about him in the last 5-10 years, then I wouldn't be surprised if most people under 30 don't know much beyond recognising the name.
I'm old enough to remember the 90's TV show, the Disney movie and that badly dubbed thing with Schwarzenegger and yet (without looking it up) I could only describe him in the broadest of strokes. Olympian demi-god, father: Zeus, stepmother: Hera. Strangled snakes in the crib. Something about 12 trials. A golden fleece and a cyclops may have been in there somewhere...or was that Jason and the Argonauts?

Point is, I've had a fair degree of exposure to the material, but only the basics have really stuck. But then you can say the same about Superman. I suppose the difference is that in 100 years if you as kids about Hercules you're probably going to get the same response. If you as those same kids about Superman, they might not have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Or maybe they will. Who knows?

Yup, agreed. By far the most relevant recent touchstone for the general public about Hercules is the 90s Disney movie - and that's very nearly 20 years ago. The Kevin Sorbo show ended 2 years later, but it wasn't nearly as popular and really, was aimed at an older age group anyway. There were two (I think?) movies about Hercules within the last few years, sword-and-sandals epic types after the Clash of the Titans remake was such a big hit, but I think they made absolutely no impact.

I think comparisons with King Arthur and Robin Hood are apt.

ETA: And Superman too, honestly. I think he and Batman are probably at the point now where they're pretty "archetypical" and you don't need much more than the broad strokes to get the idea. Which is why you can get so much variety!

 

[theenglish]

The thing about comic book heroes is that they have been around for a century, which is really a pebble in the lake. Now, they are permeating popular culture in a big way because movies can finally depict their powers realistically.

That's not going to last for much longer and the next BIG thing will come along soon enough.

So, rather than fight about it let's enjoy the moment while it lasts---and if that moment is two or three decades like it was for Westerns or Action Films than that is a pretty big moment.

 

[Christopher]

The thing about comic book heroes is that they have been around for a century, which is really a pebble in the lake. Now, they are permeating popular culture in a big way because movies can finally depict their powers realistically.

That's not going to last for much longer and the next BIG thing will come along soon enough.

Not necessarily. Some things endure through the centuries. Shakespeare never expected his plays to be more than disposable popular entertainment; he thought his legacy would be the serious stuff, the sonnets and narrative poems.

In the recent novel Barsk: The Elephant's Graveyard by Laurence M. Schoen (whom Trek fans may know as the founder of the Klingon Language Institute), a posthuman civilization hundreds of millennia in the future comes across a human-made AI that introduces itself by reciting the names of some of the enduring heroic archetypes of human myth: "Gilgamesh. The Pendragon. Kal-El."

 

[theenglish]

Yes, but that proves the point. The comic book heroes are on the verge of becoming Robin Hood or Hercules.