Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

[USS Triumphant]

Here's an odd thought that just floated through my head: Winn isn't even straight, or if he is, he isn't necessarily interested in Kara that way. He's jealous because he was friends with Kara at their job long before she revealed her powers, and now he sees some of what is going on - and particularly Jimmy - as encroaching on their friendship. Which might explain why his rage monster took the form that it did: he didn't say he was upset about possibly losing her to Jimmy, his core issue is that she's never going to be normal. He wasn't trying to rub that in her face - that was accidental - he was expressing his upset that because of who and what she is and is becoming, he is losing his friend. Possibly his only one - we haven't seen any indication that he has any social life outside of her, and he doesn't have family ties, really, either.

I'm probably completely wrong. But time will tell. Or maybe I've already missed something.

 

[Christopher]

^No, Winn is definitely heterosexually interested in Kara. Remember in the pilot, when she took him to the roof to tell him the secret about herself that she'd been hiding, he initially thought she was coming out as a lesbian and that it "explained" why she didn't reciprocate his interest in her.

 

[USS Triumphant]

^No, Winn is definitely heterosexually interested in Kara. Remember in the pilot, when she took him to the roof to tell him the secret about herself that she'd been hiding, he initially thought she was coming out as a lesbian and that it "explained" why she didn't reciprocate his interest in her.

Okay, yeah - I'm 99.9% sure you're right, with the .1% being only because things have been known to change between a pilot and the rest of a series.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Now that you mention it, I think that establishes a problematic pattern with the writing of the Winn character...he has a tendency to blurt out his true feelings for Kara to Kara herself, which is a very awkward thing to do that should potentially destroy his friendship with her...but it's the best the writers can do to get that aspect of the story across, because she's his only sounding board. More smartly written, he'd be expressing these things to somebody else and keeping them from Kara.

 

[Trekker4747]

Here's an odd thought that just floated through my head: Winn isn't even straight....

What gave you the idea he wasn't straight? No, he doesn't fit into the typical masculine archetype but neither does he fit into the homosexual male cliche/archetype either. Hell, I'm not even sure we can go all Aughts and say he's "metro."

But just because he isn't a masculine man marching around in a tight shirt showing off his biceps and talking about football doesn't mean his automatically homosexual.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He asked Kara on a date in the pilot, and then rejoiced that she turned him down because she's a lesbian and he's not a shit awful male person.

Maybe he was looking for a beard too awkward to ask questions?

 

[USS Triumphant]

Here's an odd thought that just floated through my head: Winn isn't even straight....

What gave you the idea he wasn't straight? No, he doesn't fit into the typical masculine archetype but neither does he fit into the homosexual male cliche/archetype either. Hell, I'm not even sure we can go all Aughts and say he's "metro."

But just because he isn't a masculine man marching around in a tight shirt showing off his biceps and talking about football doesn't mean his automatically homosexual.

None of that factored into my consideration. I know enough gay men not to stereotype. Instead, it was based on two things, both meta: 1. It would blindside people, so it might be something the writers would want to do, and 2. Diversity casting.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Here's an odd thought that just floated through my head: Winn isn't even straight, or if he is, he isn't necessarily interested in Kara that way. He's jealous because he was friends with Kara at their job long before she revealed her powers, and now he sees some of what is going on - and particularly Jimmy - as encroaching on their friendship. Which might explain why his rage monster took the form that it did: he didn't say he was upset about possibly losing her to Jimmy, his core issue is that she's never going to be normal. He wasn't trying to rub that in her face - that was accidental - he was expressing his upset that because of who and what she is and is becoming, he is losing his friend. Possibly his only one - we haven't seen any indication that he has any social life outside of her, and he doesn't have family ties, really, either.

I'm probably completely wrong. But time will tell. Or maybe I've already missed something.

i'd agree with the others that he's straight, and in fact interested in Kara.

But what complicates things is what you suggested - their friendship is also a REAL thing that existed long before Jimmy. And I think you're right...Jimmy is invading in on this. After all, Kara went TO Win on her secret because she apparently trusts him more than anyone in National City.

But then all of a sudden Jimmy comes in, and seems t be able to provide everything Win can -- and more. Win's importance to Kara (from the costume to the tech support) could be some IMPORTANT things that Kara is oblivious too, at least compared to all the knowledge Jimmy brings. (And in real life, people can be oblivious to the feelings of others, even if it seems obvious when you look back. I recall a couple of young women that I was oblivious to their feelings...though now I recall -- wow, I should have seen it. i'm not sure how they felt on their end)

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

But what complicates things is what you suggested - their friendship is also a REAL thing that existed long before Jimmy. And I think you're right...Jimmy is invading in on this. After all, Kara went TO Win on her secret because she apparently trusts him more than anyone in National City.

But then all of a sudden Jimmy comes in, and seems t be able to provide everything Win can -- and more. Win's importance to Kara (from the costume to the tech support) could be some IMPORTANT things that Kara is oblivious too, at least compared to all the knowledge Jimmy brings. (And in real life, people can be oblivious to the feelings of others, even if it seems obvious when you look back. I recall a couple of young women that I was oblivious to their feelings...though now I recall -- wow, I should have seen it. i'm not sure how they felt on their end)

The problem for Win is that he foolishly assumed the length of his crush should make him her first and only interest in a romantic sense. Life seldom works that way, and he should consider the possibility that she never viewed him as potential boyfriend.

Further, not only is she attracted to James to some considerable degree (e.g. Alex saying he makes her smile unlike anyone ever has), but he also helps define her world by being one of the few insiders about her cousin and being Kryptonian. He also provides another kind of experienced insight beyond Win's, hence how she leans on James so much (so far).

Win cannot think he's "payed in" with Kara, like an investment or a down payment. That kind of obsessive nonsense only leads to greater personal downfall--not reserved for romance, either.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Casting Diversity, huh?

Where, oh where to plant the rainbow flag?

If Alex and Max arn't going to hook up, which looks likely, Max not for lack of trying seems not to be Cat Grant's babydaddy maybe? A child really, really doesn't mean that you are straight any more, so Cat? I was actually thinking that hooking up electrics in some cultures is a recognized form of courtship. Winn and Cat?

Hank/John's gender is literally fluid. There's an infamous story where J'onn (after he junk shifted into a Martian woman) lead an all female squad of Justice Leaguers against a different bunch of terrorist Amazons. That was the issue where Wonder Woman admitted that she liked girls. Although in Teen Titans (animated) very recently (A month ago? The one where Weird Al Yankovic played Darkseid.) they made several underhanded remarks about how any one called a "Manhunter" had to be into dudes. No seriously, this happened.

Alura would be fantastic as a lesbian because of the whole irony thing about Clark being the last of his species and... "OH C'MON!"

Agent Donavan? After 90 episodes of Brothers and Sisters as a very camp g... With Calista? Coincidence or friends? Oh, my. Luke Macfarlane's boyfriend is Wentworth Miller, or at least Google tells me they were together a couple years ago, and if they were still together, that might mean that Wentworth is on the Supergirl set sometimes to see his boo?

Well?

There's not a lot of series regulars or secondaries on this show yet.

What about T. O. Morrow? Making a robot with your own face is super weird. Yes, Soong, I know, but would they do that because these mad scientists luv themselves so much and they've finally created a dispossessed method of longrange selfabuse, or is this a fantastic deterrent to stop Morrow (and Soong) from using their androids for sex dollies?

 

[JoeZhang]

Diversity casting.

What.. say that again?

Casting a straight man to play a gay man is diversity casting?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I thought that at first too.

I think he means, creating gay characters.

It's not really a... I saw a behind the scenes for modern Family where the actually gay actor in real life who plays Cameron, called the other one who plays Mitchel: "Gay for pay".

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I was really just expecting her to decide to jump into the elevator shaft right at the beginning of that scene - nothing to get the old Kryptonian adrenaline pumping like the ground rushing up at you really, really fast. Of course, then Wynn could have turned out to be wrong....

If I am not misremembering, with the way the scene played out we don't know for certain this wasn't what happened. It is possible she made a gamble, jumping because she felt the adrenaline rush, which would also explain her changing – she took that moment to hesitate, and the falling brought her powers back.

Alas, nothing in there implied this – like grabbing Jimmy and realising she still can't fly up. It would have been really a suitable follow-up for what she did – flirting with risks, nearly recklessly, almost revealing herself and even getting shot. Jumping right down an elevator shaft without powers for Jimmy would have been the logical conclusion. And the strongest “you could have died” moment in the season so far, and one where she would have had to sit and think “Did I just do that? Maybe I need to be more thoughtful.”

The time I wasn't worrying she or Winn may also fall, I was worrying she may jump. I brought out a megaphone and shouted “STEP AWAY FROM THE SHAFT, NO NEED TO CONSTANTLY LOOK UP YOU FOOLS!” My neighbours were very confused.

 

[Christopher]

If I am not misremembering, with the way the scene played out we don't know for certain this wasn't what happened. It is possible she made a gamble, jumping because she felt the adrenaline rush, which would also explain her changing – she took that moment to hesitate, and the falling brought her powers back.

No, I've seen the scene twice now, and the camera focuses closely and deliberately on her clenching right fist and the realization on her face as she looks down at it. (Remember, when she was in the convenience store, her hand was trembling and otherwise motionless and she was clearly in great pain leaving it unsupported. The camera focused closely on her right hand in that scene so that we'd recognize the contrast when the camera focused just as closely on her healed, clenching right fist in the climax.) We then cut to Winn as he hears a whoosh and looks over to see Kara's sling lying abandoned on the floor. She then appears in Supergirl costume flying down the shaft from above, then zooms down past Winn to catch Jimmy.

So, no. She absolutely did not jump down the shaft before getting her powers back. She realized her arm had healed and she had her powers back, then she left the sling behind and somehow, in the span of two or three seconds, changed clothes, flew up to the roof, then flew down from the top of the elevator shaft.

And it's that last bit I don't get. Since James and Winn were the only witnesses at that moment, she could've just saved James while in civilian clothes and then changed into Supergirl. Maybe they didn't want to go to the time and expense of rigging Benoist in the flying harness in two different outfits?

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Yeah, I remember it now.

As for the change of clothes, there's always the risk a witness may pop up while she's saving him. Maybe it is generally part of her safety routine to always change with no exception, and she is quite religiously following it, and fast with it too. I know I would do that if I were her. But she wasn't keen on safety this week, and that was probably the last worry on her mind in that moment. So, I guess no.

 

[Christopher]

Hey, I just remember that bit in the pilot costume montage where Winn figured out that the cape helped Supergirl's aerodynamics, after she had trouble controlling her flight without it. So maybe that's why she needed to change into costume before saving James. In the narrow confines of the elevator shaft, she wasn't confident in her stability without the cape.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

And it's that last bit I don't get. Since James and Winn were the only witnesses at that moment, she could've just saved James while in civilian clothes and then changed into Supergirl. Maybe they didn't want to go to the time and expense of rigging Benoist in the flying harness in two different outfits?

I'd imagine that the CG artists already have a standard template of Supergirl in costume that they use for blurred flying shots and they use & re-use this template to save time and money producing visual effects for a weekly TV show.

To render a civilian-clothed Kara from scratch for a brief scene in a single episode (with little re-use value -- unless Benoist wore the exact same outfit to fly in a latter episode) would be fairly cost-prohibitive.

Re-rigging Benoist, as you mentioned, would also be a production nightmare. She would have to change clothes, make-up, and hairstyles before getting back in the harness for un-costumed Kara to fly; all of which would eat up a ton of their filming schedule.

Much easier (and affordable) to just leave Benoist dressed as Supergirl, throw Brooks up there with her in the flying rig, and film that scene at the same time that they filmed all of her flying scenes for that episode.

From an audience standpoint, it does seem weird that she took the time to change outfits before saving James, but I believe it's a forgivable lapse in story logic if we consider the constraints of producing an effects-heavy superhero series like this on a weekly basis.

 

[Christopher]

From an audience standpoint, it does seem weird that she took the time to change outfits before saving James, but I believe it's a forgivable lapse in story logic if we consider the constraints of producing an effects-heavy superhero series like this on a weekly basis.

There's also abundant precedent for it in past superhero shows. For instance, there was one Adventures of Superman episode where George Reeves's Clark noticed that a floor was about to give way, so he changed into Superman, went down to the basement, and held up the support beam until he could brace the floor. He was alone in the basement and nobody could see him, and time was of the essence, but he still took the time to change clothes first.

At least Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman could change costumes magically by spinning.

 

[Trekker4747]

Depending on how much latitude we want to give the show and Kara's use of her powers, not to mention how far her limits are, we could argue that most of the time when using her powers she's operating at less than 100% for the sake of not pushing herself too far or causing injury/damage to others.

It could be that Kara simply is greatly fast enough -like Superman often is- to run to wherever she keeps her costume, change and then return in a literal instant.

It'd be a *real* stretch to believe she wears the costume under her regular clothes all of the time, which is just wildly impractical for numerous reasons. And since it's made with Earth materials then there's no notion of it being capable of being compressed or phased-away when not needed.

Though we could *maybe* argue she's capable of compressing the costume into something she can carry with her most of the time and is also able to uncompress it.

But, then, how did she do either with the costume when she was depowered? She certainly didn't have time to go home, change, and come back during the robbery?

.... Does she wear it under her clothes all of the time? Because that's just sort of silly.

We could give a lot of latitude if the costume was made of Kryptonian materials, then we could just say it's capable of of phasing in out of reality, compressing/decompressing, or whatever.

Eh, screw it, I'm saying Kryptonian materials. When she "came out" as Supergirl Superman recreated her costume from Kryptonian materials he was able to create/synthesize in the FoS.

 

[Christopher]

Depending on how much latitude we want to give the show and Kara's use of her powers, not to mention how far her limits are, we could argue that most of the time when using her powers she's operating at less than 100% for the sake of not pushing herself too far or causing injury/damage to others.

Also known as the "World of Cardboard" principle.

It could be that Kara simply is greatly fast enough -like Superman often is- to run to wherever she keeps her costume, change and then return in a literal instant.

Which is basically the operating assumption on The Flash (although Cisco is working on the costume ring). And we know that Kryptonians rival the Flash's speed. Still, in "How Does She Do It?" we saw her land behind a bush as Supergirl and emerge two seconds later as Kara, implying she has both sets of clothes with her somehow.

.... Does she wear it under her clothes all of the time? Because that's just sort of silly.

But it's apparently canon for this show -- the final shot of the opening montage is Kara opening her shirt to reveal the S underneath.