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Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

Finally got a chance to watch it last night.
What the hell is keeping all those loose, evil Kryptonians from taking over the Earth? They're always in hiding, but from what? They could stomp us all into jelly and rule the world by dinner time.

They're not trying to take over the Earth, they're trying to save it.

Alura's people are a cross between Greenpeace and the IRA.

Problem is that they've started being militant dicks before they've offered an understandable ultimatum about man not inadvertently and ignorantly self-terminating their own ecosphere.

Are they just concerned with regular pollution, or is man kind about to invent new dangerous technology that's going to put the planet in a coffin super quick?

If it is a new piece of tech that's the problem, if man is about to start tapping it's core, 10 minutes in front of a white board and then every one should be happy to file suicide away as a bad idea, so why be so aggressive?

Unless the Kryptonians have already asked "someone" nicely about switching over to cold fusion from fossil fuels, and they were told to go fuck themselves?
 
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What bugs me, now that I think about it, is how much J'onn has had to hold back to keep his own secret. He's basically as powerful as a Kryptonian, plus he has telepathy, shapeshifting, and density-shifting on top of that.
In the comics. The extent of his powers on Supergirl is whatever the people making the show decide to make it.

Plus, while comics J'onn has Kryptonian-like powers, in my comics-reading experience he's typically been depicted as being below Superman's league in terms of pure power level. TV J'onn might not be a match for one Kryptonian in a straight-up brawl. More powers doesn't necessarily equal more powerful.
 
John is mostly half assing it.

Not sure why.

Fair play?

When the Manhunter really let lose in Grant Morrison's Earth II, he turned his chest into a thousand tendrils, burrowed into Ultraman( Superman from Earth II)'s chest and continuously punched his insides with each of those thousand tendrils, all of which were as powerful as one of Superman's fists, until Ultraman passed out.

1268099_jla_e2.jpg
 
What bugs me, now that I think about it, is how much J'onn has had to hold back to keep his own secret. He's basically as powerful as a Kryptonian, plus he has telepathy, shapeshifting, and density-shifting on top of that.
In the comics. The extent of his powers on Supergirl is whatever the people making the show decide to make it.

He was able to hold his own in the fight against Non's forces in the latest episode. So I think that provides a benchmark for his strength. And his shapeshifting and telepathy are established as well. I'd be surprised if they left out his density-shifting/phasing ability.
 
A lot of research suggests that power doesn't corrupt. Instead, it simply allows people to do what they actually want to do.

In sum, the study found, power doesn’t corrupt; it heightens pre-existing ethical tendencies.
Source

Power isn't corrupting; it's freeing, says Joe Magee, a power researcher and professor of management at New York University. "What power does is that it liberates the true self to emerge," he says. "More of us walk around with kinds of social norms; we work in groups that exert all pressures on us to conform. Once you get into a position of power, then you can be whoever you are."
Source

Think about Superman's upbringing with the Kents. Think about Reginald Barclay's wish to be more confident and assertive.

That's rare. There's too many accounts of politicians once known for being good--fighting for "the people," only to reach some higher office, then embrace many of the corrupt behavior and/or policies they fought against when "small and honest."

Access to power and working with those well invested in attaining more can change anyone against their original nature or belief system.
 
^ Those are probably cases of reality or compromise setting in and replacing their ideals or, as the research suggests, they were always corrupt in some way to begin with.
 
I'm watching the Supergirl Pro Surfing competition. Next season they have tie-in with the show and have Kara go to event.
Although they probably shouldn't actually have her compete.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPr5VqpQ7DY[/yt]
 
I just saw Supergirl and Lex Luthor Kissing.

Wow.

Weird.

John Shea (Luthor form Lois and Clark) and Helen Slater (Supergirl from Supergirl the Movie) are playing a married couple on Agent X.
 
The FX of the fight (especially the body slamming) were just plain awful.

It's. A. TV. Series! You realize they don't have a $75-million dollar effects budget and several months to a year and a staff of hundreds to put the scene together with for one episode, right? You know special effects, even computer effects, is a complicated process that takes a lot of time, and work, to do and isn't just a point, click, drag-and-drop, task, right?

The show has to stay within a budget, a budget that'd make it look like an independent-release movie, they have a limited staff because of that budget and have to do multiple episodes at once, they don't have a whole heck of a lot of time to put the effects together before the episode has to be edited together and made ready to air. We're talking about weeks here, not several months like on a movie.

For a TV series with this level of effects, I think it looks pretty decent. And I know the last time I challenged you on this your brought up The Walking Dead, but that show doesn't have whole heck of a lot of computer-generated effects on an episode-to-episode basis, a lot of it is makeup. There may be some landscapes that are CGI, the occasional herd or maybe a fancy slaying of a walker, and certainly some of the blood splattering around, but most of the effects in the show are practical and done in-camera.

The big CGI moments mostly come for grand-scale stuff, but isn't done on an episode-to-episode basis.

Here, every episode has to have a large level of effects due to the flying, fighting, any "creature" effects, etc. So every episode has to have computer effects work done, and that makes their staff's workload spread thin.

The Walking Dead's computer-effects people aren't spread as thin so they have more time to make their work look good.

Seriously, the effects on this show may not be Hollywood Blockbuster caliber, but for a weekly TV series on a Network that pinches pennies, and for as effects-intensive as the series is it does a pretty good job. This latest episode had to deal with Kara and her aunt crashing through buildings, Kara handling debris, the super-powered flights and fist-fights, there's a lot going on here. And the effects team had maybe a couple weeks to put it together before they had to work on the next episode. I'd say they did pretty good under those conditions.
 
^You're right, Trekker, but I'd go even further: For a TV series, the effects work on this show is amazingly ambitious and effective. Okay, so it isn't absolutely photorealistic, but most visual effects throughout the history of film have been nowhere near absolutely photorealistic. Audiences today have become spoiled by top-notch CGI. When I was growing up, I could always tell that FX were FX, but I was able to suspend disbelief because I could use my imagination to span the gap between what I was shown and what it was supposed to represent. You just had to approach FX as impressionistic art rather than photorealistic art. That's how FX worked for most of the history of the film industry -- not to mention for thousands of years before that with the much cruder effects and scenery on the stage. We talk about interactive entertainment as if it were something new, but theater and film have always been interactive, because the audience has to do the work of applying their own imagination to buy into the illusion.

I mean, good grief, it's amazing that we're seeing action sequences like these at all on live-action TV. In the past, superhero shows have greatly dialed down the action to a more affordable level, keeping the superheroic feats brief or limited or mostly off-camera. If you wanted to see the kind of big, wild action that was routine in the comics, your only options were animated shows or huge-budget features. But now we can get that same level of action on prime-time live-action TV -- who cares if it's photorealistic? Comic books and animated cartoons aren't. Really, it's extraordinary what the FX teams on Supergirl and The Flash are giving us on a TV budget. They've pulled off something that would've been impossible just a few years ago, and they deserve nothing but praise for that achievement. And of course they're going to keep getting even better at it over time, as they refine their skills and their technology. I'm excited to see where they'll take it next.
 
It also doesn't help that-- unlike on Flash and Arrow-- the majority of the big action sequences in Supergirl are taking place in bright daylight instead of at night. Which probably makes them even harder to achieve and make look believable.

Although that said... my issue with the action in Supergirl is less with the "photorealism" of it than with the movements and choreography of the figures flying around. The way they have people changing direction or zig-zagging across the sky makes them look as weightless as rag dolls or videogame characters at times, and I really wish they would rethink their approach with some of that stuff.

What I always loved about the slower and more balletic movements in the Donner movies was that it conveyed the sense of people flying through real air, who might continue drifting a bit as they changed direction or who had to sometimes "push off" again to regain momentum, or angle their bodies the right way to fight the air currents.

You got the sense that Donner really thought all that stuff through, and it really makes up for any lack of photorealism those effects might have now, at least in my book.
 
I dunno, it's hard to really say how Superman would fly in any real life and what he'd look-like "pushing-off" the air. I mean, he's able to move, change direction and propel himself without any obvious means of interacting with environment.

For the time the effects in the Donner movie and sequels look good but it still looks like a man hanging on wires. Just the way he moves has that look. He seems to "dangle."

Now, it's not Pumaman terrible....

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHMPR7kXJak[/yt]

;)

But, I dunno it has a look to it. I don't look down on the film for it, it's still good and they did the best they could do with the time/budget/technology they had.

In the Supergirl series I think the flying looks good and looks nice and "superpowered" and they don't look like they're dangling from wires and restricted by them, lest they twist the wires up together.

I mean, good grief, it's amazing that we're seeing action sequences like these at all on live-action TV. In the past, superhero shows have greatly dialed down the action to a more affordable level, keeping the superheroic feats brief or limited or mostly off-camera. If you wanted to see the kind of big, wild action that was routine in the comics, your only options were animated shows or huge-budget features. But now we can get that same level of action on prime-time live-action TV -- who cares if it's photorealistic? Comic books and animated cartoons aren't. Really, it's extraordinary what the FX teams on Supergirl and The Flash are giving us on a TV budget. They've pulled off something that would've been impossible just a few years ago, and they deserve nothing but praise for that achievement. And of course they're going to keep getting even better at it over time, as they refine their skills and their technology. I'm excited to see where they'll take it next.
Even Smallville could only do so much with any "super powered" scene. Hell, look at "Lois and Clark" which was restricted to wire-work and blue-screen, and it holds it back. But here, as you say, on a weekly series we're getting CGI-aided super-powered fights shown in daylight! It looks good to me. If it was a movie we *might* be able to rail on the look of the effects -considering independent movies manage to get very good looking effects- but this is a weekly series. Considering the much tighter budget and time-scale they have to work with, the effects look pretty darn good.
 
It also doesn't help that-- unlike on Flash and Arrow-- the majority of the big action sequences in Supergirl are taking place in bright daylight instead of at night. Which probably makes them even harder to achieve and make look believable.

I still think they look pretty amazing by TV standards. As I said, because of the kind of FX I grew up with, I don't dwell so much on how perfect they are and focus more on what they're showing me, what actions and events they're depicting. I'm just thrilled that we're actually getting to see a lot of Supergirl actually saving people and doing superfeats, instead of just having her spend 40 minutes of the episode as Kara and 2 minutes as Supergirl and maybe hold up the back of one car and smash through one wall.


What I always loved about the slower and more balletic movements in the Donner movies was that it conveyed the sense of people flying through real air, who might continue drifting a bit as they changed direction or who had to sometimes "push off" again to regain momentum, or angle their bodies the right way to fight the air currents.

You got the sense that Donner really thought all that stuff through, and it really makes up for any lack of photorealism those effects might have now, at least in my book.

Well, of course, the actors moved that way because they actually were physically suspended in midair and being moved around. And they couldn't be moved too quickly without overstressing the wires.

My father, who was of the generation that would've been the original target audience for Superman on comics and radio in the late '30s and '40s, and who maybe watched the George Reeves show as a young adult, once told me that he didn't like the way Christopher Reeve's Superman just slowly levitated into the air. He could understand that it was necessary because of the functional and safety limitations of the wires, but he was used to thinking of Superman's liftoffs as something much more forceful. On radio, it was often described as like a rocket taking off or an arrow being fired, and George Reeves had his springboard liftoffs. In the Fleischer cartoons, Superman's liftoffs were almost explosively abrupt and powerful. So having him just gently waft into the air like Peter Pan on stage was kind of revisionist to someone like my father, who'd grown up with a different image of how Superman took flight.


I dunno, it's hard to really say how Superman would fly in any real life and what he'd look-like "pushing-off" the air. I mean, he's able to move, change direction and propel himself without any obvious means of interacting with environment.

Still, one would expect he'd need to apply some kind of force to cancel or redirect his considerable momentum, and that it therefore wouldn't be instantaneous when he changed course. Although there is a theory that he has the power to cancel inertia, which is how he can catch people falling from great heights without hurting them or carry gigantic objects around without them collapsing under their own weight. Though Supergirl's mishap with the oil tanker a while back suggests she doesn't have that ability, or at least doesn't have it mastered yet.


For the time the effects in the Donner movie and sequels look good but it still looks like a man hanging on wires. Just the way he moves has that look. He seems to "dangle."

I've never thought that about Reeve. His experience as a glider pilot enabled him to give a very convincing appearance of managing his flight by shifting his weight and attitude. But Zod, Non, and Ursa in Superman II absolutely did look like they were just dangling on wires. I'm puzzled that nobody suggested that Reeve give them movement coaching. (Helen Slater did a pretty good job too, though she used more of a balletic/swimming attitude, with arms out to her sides and one knee bent. Benoist often does the knee-bend thing too.)



Even Smallville could only do so much with any "super powered" scene.

Although they got better over time. I think that in their last two seasons, they really raised their game and did some highly impressive action shots. Although it tended to be one or two "wow" moments per episode, rather than whole long sequences.


Hell, look at "Lois and Clark" which was restricted to wire-work and blue-screen, and it holds it back.

I've been rewatching L&C on DVD lately, and they did actually use CGI to an extent. It was the '90s, after all, not the '80s. There are some bits in the special features showing how they used a CGI Clark or Superman in some of the flying shots -- for instance, there's a bit in the pilot where Clark takes off from an alley and flies home to Smallville, and as the camera follows him up from the alley, it transitions from the stuntman on wires to the CGI version of Clark against a CGI sky. There's also that shot used in the titles every week, where Superman flies Lois in through the Daily Planet office window for the first time, and the top of the window frame is CGI, because of course the actors were hanging from wires.

Still, the show's budgetary limitations means it often had some very limited Superman action. I've gotten tired of how many times Superman "flew off" just by having Dean Cain flourish his cape in front of the camera and run offscreen while the other actors lift their eyes skyward.
 
Well, of course, the actors moved that way because they actually were physically suspended in midair and being moved around. And they couldn't be moved too quickly without overstressing the wires.

Well yeah, obviously. But regardless, it still looked like these were figures who had real weight to them as they were flying through the air. And I suspect even if Donner had the ability to use digital doubles, he'd still try to have them move in a similar kind of way, and not change direction on a dime or zig zag around like rag dolls.

It's basically the same principle behind making, say, the Millennium Falcon look believable and like it has real weight as it flies around. Whether it's a physical or CG model, it still needs to move in a certain way for it to look credible on screen.
 
"Glee!", that's where I know Melissa Benoist. She played a less than major character who was added in the later seasons. I always thought she looked familiar but could never place her. My daughter mentioned it to me over the week-end. I imagine if SG stays on long enough, we'll eventually hear her sing. She's got a great voice.
 
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