Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Commander Richard, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, the move is pretty clearly a ratings thing. If the show did better in the ratings, there would be no concerns with the budget. Budgets are based on ratings, which is why popular shows get big budgets, and low rated shows get their budgets cut. If CBS was happy with the ratings there is no way they would have given it up, and there would have been no question about whether it was going to be renewed before the news came out.
    It's also worth keeping in mind that CW shows don't need to get the same size ratings as shows on CBS, so there is a much bigger threshold for success. So a show with OK ratings on CBS could end up being considered a big hit on The CW.
    I don't see the network making a difference about the CW characters they can use. It's still being produced by all of the same people and companies. Rights like that are entirely based around production company, not the network. if the network mattered then I doubt Supergirl or Gotham would be using DC characters since neither of those networks are owned by WB.
    Yeah, I don't see them merging it with the Arrowverse. I definitely see more crossovers, but I see it remaining on a separate Earth. They've spent so much time setting up a different universe and I really can't see them dumping that just because it's moving to the CW.

    I honestly didn't think of that, but I could see them bring in some doppelgangers.
     
  2. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Well, there's also the fact CBS didn't care for the 3 million per episode broadcast fee (that's what they felt was too high given the overall ratings of the show). The move to the CW puts the show in a different broadcast fee structure (read a lot less); so that in combination with the move to Vancouver means overall the production values should remain about the same even with the change in exterior location shots.
     
  3. Commander Richard

    Commander Richard The Man With the Zapper Gun Premium Member

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    This show needed NCIS' viewership but it was never going to get it.

    I'm also thinking that they'll have to get used yo a new crew.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It's not about me. That's the whole point. I'm a heterosexual Anglo-Saxon cis-male -- I could easily just stew in my own bubble of self-interested privilege and be a Trump voter. But instead I try to consider viewpoints beyond my own, to listen to people different from myself and recognize that the unquestioned privilege of my group is frequently hurtful to others and needs to be challenged. I wouldn't feel so strongly about this issue if my own opinion were the only one that mattered to me.


    There is a difference where licensing is concerned, I believe. That's why so many negotiations were needed to get the Flash on Supergirl or John Constantine on Arrow. The networks do have some stake in the characters and where they get to appear. I think I read that CBS and Warner Bros. shared ownership of Supergirl's first season, or something like that, whereas now it will be owned exclusively by WB like the Arrowverse shows. So it should, in fact, be easier to arrange crossovers now.
     
  5. Mike Farley

    Mike Farley Commodore Commodore

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    I don't feel like, functionally, it makes any difference if Barry has to run across the country to crossover with Kara, or through a dimensional portal.
     
  6. Stephen Lee

    Stephen Lee Commodore Commodore

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    Time & Scheduling. Grant Gustin is the main on The Flash, he can't just disappear from his own show to fly out to LA and film (depending on the scenes, it can take hours or days to do it). It needs alot of pre-planning on both ends so that both shows don't get disrupted. While being in the same city will be easier, they still will need to plan it out.

    I wonder if they will pack up Supergirls sets & ship in to Vancouver and then rebuild them. I see them doing this if it is cheaper than rebuilding from scratch.
     
  7. Vendikarr

    Vendikarr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    At least being on the same network should mean any crossovers will be scheduled in sync. No more arriving this week but leaving two weeks in the future like the Flash / Supergirl crossover this year.
     
  8. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    Rumor has it, there is going to be major Multiverse happenings on the Finale of Flash this season, could be a good opportunity for merging Earth 1,2,and S
     
  9. John Clark

    John Clark Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Definately glad it's been renewed:)

    I would like to see Melissa pop up on The Flash (if only for Cisco to meet her) at some point, but not neccessarily for them to reset them so the'yre on the same Earth.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
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  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It makes a lot of difference, because crossovers are just one thing that can be done, not the entire purpose of the shows. Supergirl has its own distinct, well-established universe, and the Arrowverse shows have theirs. I don't see how either continuity would be benefited by crushing them both together in a homogeneous mass. Look at how much fun it's been to visit Earth-2 and see how different it is from Earth-1. And Fringe didn't really flourish as a show until it wholly embraced having two universes and exploring how they differed.



    Just because the comics collapsed their Multiverse 30 years ago, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to repeat that on TV. Even DC changed their minds and brought the Multiverse back.

    Besides, Geoff Johns seems committed to the Multiverse idea to justify the difference between the movies and TV shows -- a divide that, for business and practical reasons, is never going to be surmounted. So I doubt DC Entertainment has any interest in collapsing all realities into one. Keeping the idea of multiple realities in people's minds is probably something they want.
     
  11. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Flash's Season Finale can't be used to 'collapse' "Earth-S" into the same reality as the Arrowverse for a couple of reasons:
    1) It would completely mess with the Season 2 plans that are already being worked on (and have been for a few weeks) by the Supergirl writing staff

    2) The decision to move Supergirl to The CW for Season 2 was only made yesterday, even though Berlanti and Co. were informed by someone (likely Les Moonves) that they were in fact getting a second season long before said decision to move the show to The CW for its Season 2 broadcast was made

    3) The Flash finale was written before the decision to move Supergirl to The CW was made

    Also, the comics later "undid"/retconned the 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' with both 'Infinite Crisis' and 'Final Crisis', so it's not as if collapsing the Multiverse is a decision that they "stuck with" long term.

    Even though it's now going to be airing on the same network and shooting in the same place, Supergirl is most likely going to remain separated from the Arrowverse by the dimensional barrier, simply because there's just no feasible way to suddenly change things.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, it was only announced yesterday. They wouldn't have announced it until they'd finalized the deal to make it happen and signed the paperwork for it, so the decision was probably made at least a few days earlier. Maybe longer -- they would've had to make sure they could rent the production facilities in Vancouver, that they could secure all the cast members, that The CW was willing and able to make room in their schedule, etc. No doubt this has been in the works for a while -- probably since shortly before we first started hearing the rumor about a CW move.

    Still, you're right that the respective shows' writing processes for next season were surely underway before the decision was made, since the lag time there is even greater.


    And because they've already invested so much in the idea of parallel Earths as part of the dynamic that they'd have no good reason to abandon it. If anything, I'd expect them to add more parallel realities in future seasons.
     
  13. Commander Richard

    Commander Richard The Man With the Zapper Gun Premium Member

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    On Tuesday, I saw a blurb somewhere that said that they had until tomorrow (Wednesday) to make a decision on Supergirl and the CW thing. Then Thursday we got the announcement. Wasn't expecting it until next week's upfront.
     
  14. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't realize that. Although I was actually thinking more about characters that hadn't appeared on screen at all yet. I would assume as long as another network hadn't used the character yet, then it wouldn't matter.
    Hmm, so if Gotham wanted to introduce it's own version of someone like Deadshot (I know this unlikely since he's in Suicide Squad, but just go with me here) would they have to deal with The CW, or would that just be if they wanted to use the Arrowverse version?
     
  15. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    @Christopher Berlanti and Co. were talking about Season 2 as being a concrete thing as far back as C2E2 and shortly thereafter, but, at least according to Deadline, formal discussions on the network/financing side of things about what to do regarding Season 2 only started within the past week or so.

    @JD FOX is willing to pay the licensing fee to Warner Bros./DC, regardless of how Gotham does ratings-wise, because it gives them completely unrestricted access to anything and everything related to Batman, including characters who've already shown up on shows broadcast by other networks or are being featured onscreen.

    The restrictions regarding character usage in terms of the Suicide Squad are strictly applicable to Arrow and its related series, not to Gotham.

    Supergirl itself hasn't heretofore been under any restrictions regarding character usage, but we'll see what happens going forward (I personally don't think anything's going to change, but that's just my opinion).
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, but that's just what I said -- that the plans were set in motion earlier than yesterday. The public announcement comes at the end of the process, once the paperwork is in place, not the beginning. That's basic to how business works. Nothing gets officially announced until the papers are signed, which can be anywhere from days to months after the decision, depending on how much of a rush is put on the contracts.
     
  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I'm not disputing that, but the point I'm trying to make is that Berlanti and Co. knew they were getting a second season way before it was worked out where said season would be airing and who would be paying for it.
     
  18. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I am hoping something like that will occur.. I am also thinking the move to the office with no windows and new position means less set cost, and Cat Grant being more of a recurring or guest star, thus saving more $$$

    Yeah, I think an anthology show would be better...maybe a mix, wherein the middle of the trips or inbetween, we follow a character's story.

    That format would also be great if they need random breaks in beween new shows (which I think really hurt Supergirl).

    No, the Berlanti's shows respect the comics way more than the DC FU (Film Universe), so not more than a slight mocking somewhere.

    They set it up in the finale to have her be an occasional guest...it'll save money, but definitely hurt the dynamic that was growing.

    So is that why they had to settle for parallel universes, perhaps?

    you mean Earth-SG? ;) I think it would be too much to force that right now... but if things work out in the 1st half... that could be a 2 1/2 of the season arc in each show. That type of thing needs build-up & coordination. I think Berlanti & co. can do it.. they just need time.

    The thing is, historically, Supergirl & the Flash have been in the same universe. It seems that legal silliness that kept them apart for the crossover.

    Comics have been pretty good about having such a large universe for years... and creatively, it is NOT that hard to have the Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman stuff not affect the TV world. (Or let fans come up with a good excuse for it... I mean, you're a Trek fan & on TrekBBS...so you've seen it a million times)

    Supergirl had been rather vague on other Superheroes this season.

    Geoff Johns talks about the multiverse because 1) he knows, understands, & appreciates the multiverse 2) while he has been advisor to the multiple live action DC stuff (from way back in Smallville), he doesn't have the power to have made it one universe... so he's able to sell this as a good excuse.

    DC people in charge of this seem more interested in making money than setting up scenarios where hardcore comic fans can create positive buzz on one end while bringing in non-comic-fans on the other (that balance that Marvel Studios have mastered and where Sony faltered with Spiderman)
     
  19. Vendikarr

    Vendikarr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because they had plans does not mean they had a green light. The networks go to the shows they are considering for renewal and ask them to submit a plan for the next season. These plans help them determine if they like the driection the show is going, and to roughly extimate costs. That they knew what they wanted season two to be, before a renewal, isn't surpriseing. I think they even leaked their idea to get Lynda Carter to fire up social media with some positive spin. Putting someone under a contract with the stipulation that is is dependant on series renewal is no surprise either.

    Technically speaking, CBS passed on a renewal, and once that deadline passed, The CW was free to pick it up. While CBS wanted the show, the ratings couldn't justify the cost to their bean counters.
     
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  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Oh, that's an interesting thought. It'd be a shame to lose that big gorgeous CatCo set, though. And it's not like the other shows don't have sizeable sets. The CCPD on The Flash is a pretty massive set, and that's in addition to all the STAR Labs sets and Joe's house and the like.


    Being on different networks was definitely a factor, but also, Arrow and The Flash had already made it quite clear that their Earth was unfamiliar with superpowered individuals before the accelerator explosion happened. So it would've been an awkward retcon to suddenly reveal that Superman had been part of their world for over a decade. I don't see that as "settling," I see it as absolutely the correct choice for the stories the respective series had to tell.

    And that's why I really don't agree with the attitude that the universes being merged is somehow inevitable. That would be a waste and a mess. It was a bad idea in Crisis on Infinite Earths, arguably causing more problems than it solved, and it would be a bad idea here.


    What's history got to do with it? Adaptation means change. There's no point in doing a new version of a story if you just copy what was done before. And even if a show is based on some prior work, its primary responsibility is to its own integrity and logic as a narrative, regardless of anything outside itself. The particular versions of the DC Universe that these shows have established are distinct from one another. It would make no more sense to change that than it would to change the movies' Nick Fury into a white guy.


    Earth-1 has three shows exploring it, four if you count Vixen, five if you retroactively include Constantine. It's already a huge universe. And making it a multiverse makes it even huger. It adds a new layer of complexity that makes it more interesting than if you just crammed it all together in one undifferentiated mass.

    At the end of the pilot, Supergirl's narration explicitly said "Earth doesn't have just one hero anymore."