That is not the same being in the organization.
Super Disapointed With The Burn Cause
- Thread starter Mav359
- Start date
No. My father was in the Air Force for 25 years. I was never in the Air Force. Nor does anyone think that the 13 years I spent as military dependent makes me a member of the Air Force.
Better put.
Wait, if my grandfather's brother was in the Wehrmacht, and my greatgrandfather was an Italian partisan fighting against the nazis, am I both Wehrmacht and partisan despite being born over fifty years after the war ended?
On topic, I liked that the cause of the Burn wasn't a big evil plot, so that's a positive. I would have preferred some more set-up though, so that the "being born on a dilithium planet changed his dna" thing isn't quite so random. For example, they could have had a 32nd century human Starfleet officer who had the same thing happen to them (of course not with a dilithium planet, and of course not with an ability to do so much damage or anything like that) appear.
On topic, I liked that the cause of the Burn wasn't a big evil plot, so that's a positive. I would have preferred some more set-up though, so that the "being born on a dilithium planet changed his dna" thing isn't quite so random. For example, they could have had a 32nd century human Starfleet officer who had the same thing happen to them (of course not with a dilithium planet, and of course not with an ability to do so much damage or anything like that) appear.
And we would have lost some amazing Doug Jones acting opportunities and important Saru character development.
Totally agree, but I think this goes beyond just the children. Just the other day I tried entering an army base because my great grandfather was in the army (meaning I am also in the army). When the guard at the gate asked for my ID, I gave him a picture of great grandfather and explained the connection. That guard was an idiot though and didn't let me in, maybe if you were there you could have explained it better.
Next time try being in uniform. I'm sure it will work much better
That isn't how it works at all.
Such a scenario would never have happened during World War II. If it has, then you would post a link to the book that you read it from? Your Great Grandfather would have offed your grandfathers brother, who would have been your Great Grandfathers son.
Both comments are incorrect, I served in the military and only dependents, which I mentioned, are considered part of the military. Dependents are children of actively serving military parents. Dependents are considered as being part of the military organization that their parents are part of and are expected to adhere and follow the standards of the organization, just like their parents are expected to. The only difference is the dependents do not go out and train with the parents. Thus the reason why children of military dependents are issued military dependent ID cards.
Therefore, since Michael Burnham's father and mother were part of Section 31, so was Michael Burnham. On top of the military dependent issue, Section 31 was a highly secretive organization, that once you are part of Section 31, either active duty personnel or just a dependent, you are Section 31 for life.
There is no leaving Section 31, ever.
What other causes, other than the tantrums of Su'Kal and the Borg could have been a reason for the Burn?
A mistake in the refining process of dilithium would have made a better reason for the Burn. A mistake that other stories could have branched off from.
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Still no. I did not spend 13 years in the Air Force as a child. My father was the only person in our family of six that was a member of the Armed Forces and the only with the right be called a veteran. The ID card I was issued as a child was pretty much limited to getting me on and off the base. And in the case of a lockdown not even that. It was a different card than was issued to actual members of the Armed Forces. I lost the right to enter a base when my dad retired.
Using your logic, my siblings and I were members of the Air Forces Security Service in the 60s and 70s and still are. I could tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you.
** My dad liked to use that joke when we asked what he did. Apparently it involved monitoring the USSR, China and other Cold War adversaries.
I also served in the military and I think it's wrong to say that military dependents are part of the military. Yes, dependents are issued ID cards so they can get on base (where they often live) and yes they have certain privileges such as the use of the BX, commissary, and other things on base. And yes, military dependents can receive certain military benefits such as healthcare and education.
But that doesn't mean they are in the military, they are civilians. They are not subject to the UCMJ and generally have no obligations to the organization other than minor things like abiding by the rules of the military base when they are on it.
Thank you. That was my point as well. Dependents are not held to, nor have a duty, to have participate with the organization's rules and regulations. Nor would a dependent be able to go serve without first being admitted.
And since Burnham's mom is no longer Section 31 Burnham lost her dependency anyway.
Yes, dependents in the real military, are held to the rules and regulations of the organizations that their parents serve in. If a dependent is caught being unruly and continues to remain unruly, the dependents errant behavior can, and is most of times used to pass over a service member for promotion or change in duty station. In an NCO cannot instill rules and regulations in their own children, then the NCO will most likely not instill discipline and respect in the non-rates that they are put in charge of.
Dependency and Dependent are two different meanings. Dependent in this case means that Burnham, being the daughter of Gabrielle Burnham who is part of Section 31, a section of Starfleet intelligence that, regardless of the chatter of Section 31 being rogue and not part of Starfleet, Section 31 is part of Starfleet.
John Harris - Recruited into Section 31 by Alexander Marcus to assist in the militarization of Starfleet in 2258
Now why would Starfleet need the assistance of Section 31 to help Starfleet become militarized? Why would Starfleet encourage activity involving a rogue military group, a group that could have attacked Romulans and Klingons without Starfleet's knowledge, to assist them in building better ships?
If Burnham lost her dependent status with Section 31, then why was Control so eager to kill her? Burnham is a Section 31 agent based on her mother being a member of Section 31, along with Burnham also being able to wear the Red Angel suit which was developed using Section 31 technology.
Back on topic
Another reason that the Burn could have happened, sans Su'Kal, is that threat forces, such as Orion's and Breen concocted a well laid out plan to sell faulty crystals to the Federation that then caused misalignments in the warp core.
Doubt it.
I highly doubt they are held to the UCMJ.
Sorry, I should have been more precise. The greatgrandfather is the father of my father‘s mother‘s, while the other guy is my father‘s father‘s brother. I don‘t think they were ever even in the same country.
The fact that someone in the military may be judged based on the behavior of their family members does not make those family members part of the military. So if someone in the military owned a dog they couldn't train, and someone thought "I'm not going to promote this guy because he can't even train his damn dog", does that make the dog part of the military? Or if someone doesn't mow their lawn and doesn't get a promotion because of it, does that make the lawn part of the military?
Sidebar, I'm sure it happens a lot but not promoting someone because of things not related to their job is really unprofessional.
I quite liked how it was a personal issue that caused it as opposed to something more grand and nefarious. It felt more real, like a lot of the side characters have started feeling as well this season.
Funny. A son of a retired Air Force Colonel here. I don't recall being held to the rules and regs under the USAF when I was growing up??
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