• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Suicide Squad - Grading & Discussion

Grade it!


  • Total voters
    107
I finally figured out the problem I have with Leto's Joker. His craziness is all surface. The teeth, the tatts, the outfits. His look has all the appearance of something that's been intricately designed down to the smallest detail, which, given we're talking about the personification of chaos here, seems to miss the point by several miles.
 
The Joker is wussified by love.

(Like people in love are supposed to be wussified by love, it's the worst draw back to being in love.)
 
I really liked Leto-Joker but my main problem with him is that he seems to legitimately love and feel concern for Harley, rather than treat her as a disposable object. Remember in the Batman TAS episode where Harley had to help Bats stop Joker's nuke, and found out that he didn't bother trying to save her from the explosion?
 
I finally figured out the problem I have with Leto's Joker. His craziness is all surface. The teeth, the tatts, the outfits. His look has all the appearance of something that's been intricately designed down to the smallest detail, which, given we're talking about the personification of chaos here, seems to miss the point by several miles.

Hmm... I haven't seen the movie yet, but just speaking of the Joker in general, I'm not sure I'd agree. A lot of the Joker's schtick has always been about performance and image. He is based on a clown, after all. He sees his crimes and acts of chaos as comedy performances for a captive audience. The very first Joker story (retold various times, the best-known of which is "The Laughing Fish") had him cutting into the radio (or TV) broadcasts to announce his upcoming murder-robberies, thereby giving the police every chance to protect the victims, but still getting away with the crimes anyway because he'd meticulously prepared for them in advance (for instance, giving the first victim a slow-acting poison and swapping out his diamond for a fake the day before, so that the crime was already done when he announced that it would happen that night).

So yes, the Joker wants to create chaos, but his own methods are far from chaotic. He plans his crimes meticulously and with intricate calculation and skill, which is why he's such an equal match for a genius like Batman. And he's just as calculating with his image, his public persona. He's a narcissist who thrives on attention. So he cares very much about his surface image. Even Ledger's Joker was all about presentation -- his white face and green hair were actually makeup rather than the result of acid exposure, and though he allowed his makeup and hair to get smeared, that in itself was a calculated part of the anarchic performance he was putting on for the public, part of the facade of chaos he put on even though he clearly had to employ intricate advance planning and military-level skills to pull off his "chaotic" acts of terrorism.

Now, if Leto's Joker has nothing beneath the surface, then yes, that is a failure on the filmmakers' part. But having a calculated surface persona is very true to the Joker.


I really liked Leto-Joker but my main problem with him is that he seems to legitimately love and feel concern for Harley, rather than treat her as a disposable object. Remember in the Batman TAS episode where Harley had to help Bats stop Joker's nuke, and found out that he didn't bother trying to save her from the explosion?

Characters can be reinterpreted. B:TAS's Harley was trapped in her abusive relationship, too emotionally dependent on "Mistah J" to break free; but more recent comics interpretations of Harley have presented her as a much more assertive and independent character, as well as shifting her from the role of a villain to an anarchic antihero. I gather the movie's Harley is closer to the modern comics' interpretation. So maybe making the Joker the obsessive one for a change is consistent with making Harley more autonomous.
 
I really liked Leto-Joker but my main problem with him is that he seems to legitimately love and feel concern for Harley, rather than treat her as a disposable object. Remember in the Batman TAS episode where Harley had to help Bats stop Joker's nuke, and found out that he didn't bother trying to save her from the explosion?

There's no sex in TAS.
 
I finally figured out the problem I have with Leto's Joker. His craziness is all surface. The teeth, the tatts, the outfits. His look has all the appearance of something that's been intricately designed down to the smallest detail, which, given we're talking about the personification of chaos here, seems to miss the point by several miles.

I mean, Leto-Joker is basically this:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
:)

And even literally this (with about same ratio of screentime and narrative impact)

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

That said, I really want to see more of Leto's characterisation.
 
Just got out of seeing the movie and I can't really add anything to what's already been said. The cast is good given the parts they're supposed to be playing except for Adam Beach, who's a non-entity who only shows up to get his head blown off to show that Flagg means business; but the movie has been cut to ribbons, especially the first 20-30 minutes. It's trying so hard to be 'Guardians of the Galaxy' lite but none of the jokes really land.
I'll also give Jared Leto a pass. He really doesn't add anything to the movie. He just shows up randomly at various points then vanishes. He could have been eliminated from the movie entirely and he wouldn't have been missed; it would have required a minor restructuring of Harley Quinn's plot but that could have been done at the script stage. I will say the impression I got from watching him was that he was going for a James Cagney, Edward G. Robinson '30/'40s gangster with a modern twist.
Also for a movie that's supposed to be about meta-humans and their abilities the only ones that really have any abilities are El Diablo and Enchantress. The rest just shoot guns. If they were to go up against the Justice League like its implied in the end tag, they'll get their asses handed to them.
That reminds me, why does Bruce Wayne need a file on Aquaman and Flash? Shouldn't he already have those files from the flash drive?
One last thing - I don't know what this weekend's box office will be but I went to the midday showing and I was the only one in the theater. That doesn't bode well if this movie is to have legs.
 
I saw it today. After spending the last week reading reviews from people who hated it and people who loved it, I went in with preconceived notions. I really wanted to enjoy the movie, but I had known about WB's supposed meddling.

Well, after the title card popped up I realized this was going to be a movie I was going to enjoy, and I did. A lot. I thought everyone was great in the movie, I didn't feel any characters really got shorted, except for Slipknot I guess, but he wasn't really a character but more of a plot device. I love Enchantress, I know a lot of people didn't care for her, but I thought she was a wonderfully realized character in appearance. I was disappointed when her Brother shared his power with her and she looked more regal, I much enjoyed her "feral" look that we got at the beginning of the movie, and also near the end. Her fight with the squad right before they got her heart out was a really fun sequence too.

I'm giving this an A+ as is. In fact I kind of want to see it again, before it comes out on Bluray. I hope WB releases the alternate (original?) cut of the film, because I would be interested to see if it plays better.
 
Hey! It's up to 27% on Rotten Tomatoes. That's up a full percentage point! So RT's off everybody's shit list now, right?
 
So if Unicron is a typo for Unicorn, it shouldn't be too difficult to find all the virgins in Transformers the Movie.

840959__safe_solo_twilightsparkle_meme_screencap_imagemacro_ohyou_zpsxol1dzto.png
 
I saw on a review that the novelization appears to be based one of the earlier versions of the movie, and just the sample I flipped through on my tablet is pretty different. It opens with what appear to be longer continuous version of the origin flashbacks for Enchantress and Harley, rather than the quick cut montages we got in the movie. I'm curious to check the whole thing out once I get through some of the stuff I've already got waiting to be read.
 
I really liked Leto-Joker but my main problem with him is that he seems to legitimately love and feel concern for Harley, rather than treat her as a disposable object. Remember in the Batman TAS episode where Harley had to help Bats stop Joker's nuke, and found out that he didn't bother trying to save her from the explosion?
Supposedly in the original version J gives H a nasty slap, and later pushes her from a helicopter, but these scenes were altered or removed due to testing badly. Perhaps suggesting that audience and/or studio didn't understand the characters.
 
I read that most of the Joker alterations were to make his treatment of Harley less violent and more loving.
 
Fingers crossed that we get a longer/alt version on home release a la Bat v Supes.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top