Spoilers Suicide Squad - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Being manly is a cliche. Ok, that's just about the funniest thing I've read today. As for Ayer, he's actually too busy breaking box office records.http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/box-office-suicide-squad-eyes-150-million-weekend-917819
Turns out Suicide Squad is super feminist. About 46% of the audience are women according to CinemaScore - higher than most hero flicks. Also it's rated higher by the female audience than the male audience. So anyone looking to attract female viewers to their action movie should take notes from this film. The women have spoken.
We aren't supposed to, but we can.
Sorry, I meant nine hundred and eleven 9/11s.
Ok?
What way is that?
She was only pretending to be unconscious, so maybe her powers did protect her. I know she had limited super-strength & poison immunity in the comics.
What fascinates me is fandom's defensiveness over this film. When comic films come out, fandom wants critics to claim it's the best thing since sliced bread. This is disappointing on a number of levels. Lucky for you, I have a couple of minutes to go into why!
Comic book films are usually steaming piles of shit, with mediocre acting, awful "quippy" dialogue, and little to no depth. Yes, yes, Nolan's films were good, but that's like 3 films out of many (and that depends on how you feel about The Dark Knight Rises-I liked it!).
I happen to like movies quite a bit. I really like it when they're good. Therefore, fandom losing its shit when movies are criticized is insanely annoying. Movies should be criticized so that we get better movies. But the attitude among fandom seems to be that comic book films should be above criticism, and that anyone who criticizes them just simply doesn't understand comic book films (this is a topic for another time, but fandom is AWFUL in its treatment of women critics). I'm sorry, but it's not particularly hard to "get" the latest Avengers film.
Yet Marvel, and now DC, shovels these films down our throat like diarrhea down the toilet and fandom eagerly laps it all up, saying, "Thank you, sir, can I please have some more?"
Pick up any modern comic book series, be it superhero or not, and you're likely to find a much better story than the repetitive nonsense being put on our screens. Every time a trailer for one of these films comes out, fandom wildly jerks itself off, seemingly with little concern about the actual quality. It's about hype. It's about cool. It's about being part of a club, in a way, one that can't possibly handle outside criticism.
The critical failure of Suicide Squad and Batman vs. Superman is noteworthy, but if you take a look at the Marvel films many of the flaws were already there. You have the over the top destruction without consequences. You have the almost complete lack of diversity (how is it that the newly formed DCU is getting to a woman superhero film before Marvel?!). You have the repetitive plots. You have the awkward sexism (The Avengers films, all so praised, absolutely waste Scarlett Johansson, who is a very capable actress, yet her part seems to be making sure the fanboys (and some fangirls) get to see her ass in spandex- and there's nothing wrong with Scar Jo's ass in spandex, but for Christ's sake give her something to play!). You have the banal dialogue ("I got that reference!" True Shakespeare there.) DC just doubled down on all of this nonsense. In a way, you could perhaps view the DC films as satire.
Suicide Squad, which was supposed to be the great savior of comic book films, is a great example of why we should be declaring that the genre is letting us down. Instead of kneejerk defensiveness, making the claims of "oh, it's just a movie" etc, how about fandom start demanding better films? In comics, Grant Morrison gave us a deconstruction of the whole Batman mythos, including the wacky 50s comics. Scott Snyder explored the Joker's infatuation with Batman, creating a tragic romance. Gail Simone built Batgirl into a fascinating, complex character. Grant Morrison sought out to create a Superman arc that examines why he's stayed in the American cultural spotlight. Greg Rucka is currently looking at the Wonder Woman character through a feminist lens, examining how she should be just as popular as all the other DC superheroes.
The movies give us big explosion. And "I got that reference!" Films where Batman shoots people is what we deserve when we're so ready to devour anything so long as it's hyped up as part of the comic film genre.
Comic book films are usually steaming piles of shit, with mediocre acting, awful "quippy" dialogue, and little to no depth. Yes, yes, Nolan's films were good, but that's like 3 films out of many (and that depends on how you feel about The Dark Knight Rises-I liked it!).
I happen to like movies quite a bit. I really like it when they're good. Therefore, fandom losing its shit when movies are criticized is insanely annoying. Movies should be criticized so that we get better movies. But the attitude among fandom seems to be that comic book films should be above criticism, and that anyone who criticizes them just simply doesn't understand comic book films (this is a topic for another time, but fandom is AWFUL in its treatment of women critics). I'm sorry, but it's not particularly hard to "get" the latest Avengers film.
Yet Marvel, and now DC, shovels these films down our throat like diarrhea down the toilet and fandom eagerly laps it all up, saying, "Thank you, sir, can I please have some more?"
Pick up any modern comic book series, be it superhero or not, and you're likely to find a much better story than the repetitive nonsense being put on our screens. Every time a trailer for one of these films comes out, fandom wildly jerks itself off, seemingly with little concern about the actual quality. It's about hype. It's about cool. It's about being part of a club, in a way, one that can't possibly handle outside criticism.
The critical failure of Suicide Squad and Batman vs. Superman is noteworthy, but if you take a look at the Marvel films many of the flaws were already there. You have the over the top destruction without consequences. You have the almost complete lack of diversity (how is it that the newly formed DCU is getting to a woman superhero film before Marvel?!). You have the repetitive plots. You have the awkward sexism (The Avengers films, all so praised, absolutely waste Scarlett Johansson, who is a very capable actress, yet her part seems to be making sure the fanboys (and some fangirls) get to see her ass in spandex- and there's nothing wrong with Scar Jo's ass in spandex, but for Christ's sake give her something to play!). You have the banal dialogue ("I got that reference!" True Shakespeare there.) DC just doubled down on all of this nonsense. In a way, you could perhaps view the DC films as satire.
Suicide Squad, which was supposed to be the great savior of comic book films, is a great example of why we should be declaring that the genre is letting us down. Instead of kneejerk defensiveness, making the claims of "oh, it's just a movie" etc, how about fandom start demanding better films? In comics, Grant Morrison gave us a deconstruction of the whole Batman mythos, including the wacky 50s comics. Scott Snyder explored the Joker's infatuation with Batman, creating a tragic romance. Gail Simone built Batgirl into a fascinating, complex character. Grant Morrison sought out to create a Superman arc that examines why he's stayed in the American cultural spotlight. Greg Rucka is currently looking at the Wonder Woman character through a feminist lens, examining how she should be just as popular as all the other DC superheroes.
The movies give us big explosion. And "I got that reference!" Films where Batman shoots people is what we deserve when we're so ready to devour anything so long as it's hyped up as part of the comic film genre.
Sounds like you don't like superhero movies there, friend.
Eh. I don't think the fandom is losing their shit so much as the critics are.
I don't think you should lump all criticism together. There is good criticism, and then there's nay-saying nonsense. The ratio is about 1:10 I'd guess.
This is a topic for another time, but feminist critics have been AWFUL in their treatment of fandom.
Thank God this Very Serious (TM) crime is being combated by brave warriors risking their lives to save the fans from the movies they enjoy. Heroes, every one.
Yeah! What jerks, enjoying those things, fuck those guys!
...as an example of how pointless being a critic apparently is, judging by the mountains of cash they made.
How about you do what you want, and let the fandom do what they want. Everyone is happy that way.
I love how @ancient's argument is basically "bad movies make lots of money so who cares what critics think."
I mean, I dunno, some of us like having standards and not swallowing every bone thrown at us like it's God's gift to cinema. As they say, your mileage may vary.
LOL Incorrect, you scamp! My argument is that you are not helping anyone by trying to force them to change what they like, you are only helping yourself.
@Robert Maxwell -- insulting much? It truly is tragic that we all can't have your high standards and worldly taste.
I finally got the chance to see this last night.
I totally understand why some of the critics were saying it was disjointed and poorly edited, because it clearly was. And it certainly wasn't intentional (at least I hope it wasn't), unlike say Pulp Fiction or Memento.
That said, the most important thing for me was whether or not they got the characters down. And for the most part, I think they did. I was particularly happy with Harley Quinn's portrayal. If I had any beef, it was actually with the Joker. Not because of anything Leto did wrong, but just his overall look, which was even worse than in the trailers because... he just didn't feel larger than life. I mean, even El Diablo and the Enchantress stood out in a crowd more than he did, even with his neon green hair and metal teeth. When the Joker enters a room, all eyes should land on him even before he says a single word, but in this movie, he only kinda sorta did, and then mostly only because the camera was pointed squarely at him.
I also don't understand why they even included Captain Boomerang. He was pretty much a non-entity in the movie. Even Killer Croc was given something to do, while Boomerang was just sorta there. Pretty disappointing.
Overall though, I don't think the movie was nearly as bad as the critics claimed it was, though it was a far cry from being great. It certainly did a better job of portraying its characters than any of the recent Superman movies did, including Batman v Superman.
I totally understand why some of the critics were saying it was disjointed and poorly edited, because it clearly was. And it certainly wasn't intentional (at least I hope it wasn't), unlike say Pulp Fiction or Memento.
That said, the most important thing for me was whether or not they got the characters down. And for the most part, I think they did. I was particularly happy with Harley Quinn's portrayal. If I had any beef, it was actually with the Joker. Not because of anything Leto did wrong, but just his overall look, which was even worse than in the trailers because... he just didn't feel larger than life. I mean, even El Diablo and the Enchantress stood out in a crowd more than he did, even with his neon green hair and metal teeth. When the Joker enters a room, all eyes should land on him even before he says a single word, but in this movie, he only kinda sorta did, and then mostly only because the camera was pointed squarely at him.
I also don't understand why they even included Captain Boomerang. He was pretty much a non-entity in the movie. Even Killer Croc was given something to do, while Boomerang was just sorta there. Pretty disappointing.
Overall though, I don't think the movie was nearly as bad as the critics claimed it was, though it was a far cry from being great. It certainly did a better job of portraying its characters than any of the recent Superman movies did, including Batman v Superman.
When did I say anyone wasn't allowed to like this? I just said it was bad. People are allowed to like bad movies.
It is indeed a terrible burden, but one I bear for the good of all. Perhaps one day my genius will be recognized.
You should probably just stop watching movies like this then, they don't really seem to be your cup of tea.
Maybe something like My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2 is more up your alley! I hear it's super.
Do you even remember when superhero movies were much worse? When Spiderman was goofy looking and barely able to swing. When the Punisher was Dolph Lundgren. The period where the only good Batman movie was '89. They're getting better these days, even if Marvel just exports entire movies from the same spreadsheet over and over.
Female criminals that just helped murder someone deserve better treatment than their male counterparts you guys!
I'm not sure you can put all the blame on "fandom" here.
The whole "if it's not the best thing ever, it's the worst thing ever" attitude and ridiculous hyperbole employed (like declaring this the worst movie ever, comparing it to Hitler, Trump etc.) by a large number of people that pass for "critics" these days is part of the problem. If the conversation starter is already that toxic, how can the ensuing conversation be expected to be anything but?
Captain Boomerang was the worst edit.
Amanda talks about him at dinner with the general. We see him caught and thrown in a hole during an early montage, and then a week later they claim that he has just this second been caught by the flash... Or did I miss something?
Hmmm, Ted Whittall was playing Admiral Olsen?
I wonder if he's any relation to Jimmy?
Amanda talks about him at dinner with the general. We see him caught and thrown in a hole during an early montage, and then a week later they claim that he has just this second been caught by the flash... Or did I miss something?
Hmmm, Ted Whittall was playing Admiral Olsen?
I wonder if he's any relation to Jimmy?
It was obvious from the trailers that SS contained some 'male gaze' BS - Harley changing her top, Harley bending over. But to a certain extent women are used to overlooking this idiocy if there are compensating values. In this case, Harley is a kickass anti-heroine, the villains (Enchantress and Waller) are women, and Katana is there too.
This is a lot better than the Marvel movies have done. I mean, their standout heroine so far is Black Widow, who is only a supporting character, and being so underpowered compared to the "proper" heroes, there is a sense she's only there because "girls can play too". Still, the character is liked, and I think fans would react very positively if she got a solo movie, but for some bizarre reason Marvel doesn't want to give a star like Johansson her own action movie within their universe. They had a chance to get there ahead of Wonder Woman, but they blew it.
So just because you don't like superhero movies, we shouldn't get anymore, and those of us who do should just shut up and accept it?
Not gonna happen.
It took a week to wrestle him away from the unicorn.
So if Unicron is a typo for Unicorn, it shouldn't be too difficult to find all the virgins in Transformers the Movie.