Strident adversarial Spock.

[Grant]

Does anybody else wish Spock hadn't mellowed starting in late season 1?

Re-watching season one is always exciting and I enjoy Spock in those episodes where he clashes and disagrees with Kirk.
It's his job after all.

In the pilot, forcefully advocating killing/stranding Mitchell.
Cutting Bailey no slack after his outburst.
In Enemy Within almost being more interested in the science of Kirk's split than fixing it.
His skepticism about Charlie when everyone else wants to believe his story.
His advocating fighting when the others besides Stiles were hesitant.
In Conscience when Kirk waffles on accusing Karidian he is forcefully telling Kirk what the truth is.
Clashing with everybody in Galileo.

Then in Court Martial we get an uber loyal who thinks Kirk's moral goodness is equivalent to a force of gravity and where rules and logic are tossed away to steal the ship and give Pike a happy life on Talos.

In Squire and Arena he once again becomes a little more adversarial and in Squire sends a team to investigate Kirk's abduction (not himself) and argues with Kirk about the pursuit of the Gorn in Arena.

After that point he seems to be just super calm and super smart and rarely argues with kirk very much.

what would have the Spock of WNMHGB have said about the lax way Kirk treated Khan in Space Seed?

He's genetically engineered, evasive and dishonest about his past and clearly sympathizes with the "supermen" who took over Earth and Spock barely quibbles with Kirk and the rest when they treat him like a dignitary and admire him after his identity is discovered.

The Spock of WNMHGB would have demanded Kirk place guards in the Botany Bay, guards in the transporter room and limited McGivers hero-worshipping visits to Khan's quarters and maybe TWO guards of the room of a guy who can "lift both of us with one arm"

Spock mellowing made Kirk a less effective leader.
I wonder if it was the writers or Nimoy who wanted Spock to be more Kirk's buddy than the guy who keeps him on his toes.

 

[BillJ]

I tend to think lots of people fall into the trap of trusting people they work closely with for a long period of time. Spock's human half was peeking through.

Better or worse? I don't know? But it does make the character feel like he's evolving.

 

[T'Girl]

... and I enjoy Spock in those episodes where he clashes and disagrees with Kirk.

It's his job after all.

No, it's the job of a first officer to present the commanding officer with a organized and ready ship, so that the commanding officer can carry out the ship's mission.

The first officer who "clashes and disagrees" is begging to be releaved.

 

[Timo]

The Spock of WNMHGB would have demanded...

...Would it have helped? Spock was laughed out of the court when he suggested that the evidence of Khan being a bad guy should be taken to mean that Khan was a bad guy. Kirk respected the villain. For his villainy, no less!

The laughter sort of preempted the scenes you propose. Spock can intimidate his underlings, but trying to contradict his boss would only get him in trouble. Unless the boss were just half the man he used to be, that is.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Grant]

... and I enjoy Spock in those episodes where he clashes and disagrees with Kirk.

It's his job after all.

No, it's the job of a first officer to present the commanding officer with a organized and ready ship, so that the commanding officer can carry out the ship's mission.

The first officer who "clashes and disagrees" is begging to be relieved.

Except the Spock of the early season one was NOT relieved and Kirk respected his differing opinions. kirk was not insecure--he didn't feel threatened by Spock advocating different plans of action.

I am not talking about insubordination or refusing commands but strongly advising Kirk on his opinion---that is his job--at least on the Enterprise. Maybe not in other services, but it clearly was Spock's job in season one to say, "I think this is a better plan."
Kirk always made his own choices after that.

Spock as Kirk's bud, was less interesting and less dramatic.

 

[Timo]

... it clearly was Spock's job in season one to say, "I think this is a better plan." Kirk always made his own choices after that.

It's delightful to see how this worked when Kirk lacked the will and went with the flow: Spock's "plan" (concentrate on the doppelgänger and on Kirk's reputation, hide the facts from the crew) was the one thing preventing the rescue of Sulu and the landing party in the gradually escalating disaster that was "The Enemy Within".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Trimm]

I will point out that in both Arena and Devil in the Dark, when Kirk disagreed with Spock's suggested course of action, he was pretty forceful in the manner in which he shut the conversation down, especially in Arena. Spock isn't the only character that mellowed as the first season progressed.

 

[Greg Cox]

There's an old anecdote about how, when Spock was threatening to surpass Kirk in popularity, Isaac Asimov suggested to Roddenberry that he make Spock and Kirk close friends so that they would always be linked together in the public's mind.

Can't remember where I read that before.

 

[BillJ]

There's an old anecdote about how, when Spock was threatening to surpass Kirk in popularity, Isaac Asimov suggested to Roddenberry that he make Spock and Kirk close friends so that they would always be linked together in the public's mind.

Can't remember where I read that before.

But they always seemed to be close friends. Going all the way back to "Where No Man...", they're playing Chess and Kirk is ribbing Spock about having bad blood in the family. Spock's impassioned speech to maroon Mitchell on Delta Vega while referring to Kirk as "Jim".

 

[Grant]

What was the first episode where Spock calculates something (other than time of arrival or some such) to the last decimal? Like he did in Devil in the Dark on the odds of both being killed.

 

[BigJake]

The Spock of WNMHGB would have demanded Kirk place guards in the Botany Bay, guards in the transporter room and limited McGivers hero-worshipping visits to Khan's quarters and maybe TWO guards of the room of a guy who can "lift both of us with one arm"

In all fairness, no version of Spock would have had cause to suspect McGivers' loyalty, especially as the emotions underlying her regard for Khan were at least half-alien to him. Nor would added guards have probably made too much difference; the whole point of Khan as a character was that he'd be more than equal to such challenges, and that only an equally outsized personality like Kirk could really match him. Khan essentially was an anti-Kirk far more effective than EvilKirk in "The Enemy Within," as witness that he successfully uses Kirk's own well-worn "tactical seduction" technique against him (AFAIK the only Trek villain ever to do so).

 

[Shark]

As I recall it was Nimoy that altered his portrayal of Spock because he wanted to be a counter to Shatners energy. He was much more boisterous initially because of Jeffrey Hunter's more lax energy.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

This is an interesting thread.

Here's what I think: The Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic was still being refined in early S1 episodes. Over time, Spock was calmed down to provide a sharper contrast to McCoy's emotionalism as well as to advance the in-universe idea that applying logic would render emotions superfluous and distracting.

YMMV, however.

 

[DMcCam]

Another thing came to mind about the first officer. Spock had to be able to command a star ship; far from a simple task. His character needed to inspire the needed confidence or perhaps 'settle down' a bit in order for both the viewer and crew to feel comfortable with him taking over.

Regardless of how it happened, the result made the show.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

Another thing came to mind about the first officer. Spock had to be able to command a star ship; far from a simple task. His character needed to inspire the needed confidence or perhaps 'settle down' a bit in order for both the viewer and crew to feel comfortable with him taking over.

Regardless of how it happened, the result made the show.

Excellent point, DMcCam. I'm thinking "The Galileo Seven" is where Spock learns his lesson about confidence and interpersonal relations. It's one thing to sit in the command chair of a huge starship and give orders that no one (or almost no one) objects to. It's quite another to have subordinates questioning your orders aboard a cramped shuttlecraft during the playing out of a worst-case scenario. IMO, Spock learns from that experience and becomes a better officer for it.

 

[Harvey]

There's an old anecdote about how, when Spock was threatening to surpass Kirk in popularity, Isaac Asimov suggested to Roddenberry that he make Spock and Kirk close friends so that they would always be linked together in the public's mind.

Can't remember where I read that before.

The letter where Asimov suggests emphasizing Kirk and Spock as a team can be found in the Roddenberry archives at UCLA (among other correspondence between the two men). It's also reprinted in full, I think, in David Alexander's Star Trek Creator: The Authorized Biography of Gene Roddenberry.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As I recall it was Nimoy that altered his portrayal of Spock because he wanted to be a counter to Shatners energy. He was much more boisterous initially because of Jeffrey Hunter's more lax energy.

And because Number One fulfilled the function of being the stoic and logical type.

 

[Greg Cox]

There's an old anecdote about how, when Spock was threatening to surpass Kirk in popularity, Isaac Asimov suggested to Roddenberry that he make Spock and Kirk close friends so that they would always be linked together in the public's mind.

Can't remember where I read that before.

The letter where Asimov suggests emphasizing Kirk and Spock as a team can be found in the Roddenberry archives at UCLA (among other correspondence between the two men). It's also reprinted in full, I think, in David Alexander's Star Trek Creator: The Authorized Biography of Gene Roddenberry.

Thanks! Glad to know I wasn't passing along an unsubstantiated anecdote.

 

[plynch]

There's an old anecdote about how, when Spock was threatening to surpass Kirk in popularity, Isaac Asimov suggested to Roddenberry that he make Spock and Kirk close friends so that they would always be linked together in the public's mind.

Can't remember where I read that before.

The letter where Asimov suggests emphasizing Kirk and Spock as a team can be found in the Roddenberry archives at UCLA (among other correspondence between the two men). It's also reprinted in full, I think, in David Alexander's Star Trek Creator: The Authorized Biography of Gene Roddenberry.

Thanks! Glad to know I wasn't passing along an unsubstantiated anecdote.

I thought that was a requirement of being on the bbs!

 

[LadyT'Anna]

The letter where Asimov suggests emphasizing Kirk and Spock as a team can be found in the Roddenberry archives at UCLA (among other correspondence between the two men). It's also reprinted in full, I think, in David Alexander's Star Trek Creator: The Authorized Biography of Gene Roddenberry.

Thanks! Glad to know I wasn't passing along an unsubstantiated anecdote.

I thought that was a requirement of being on the bbs!