Of what use is creativity and imagination - of what use is a dream - except as a blueprint for courageous action?
Plenty of use. Ars gratia artis. Intellectual curiosity.
Seriously?
That's very disappointing. I know we're not living in a very romantic age, but that's a sad statement to see on a board ostensibly inspired by the imagination and creativity of SF.
Different people value different things. For what it's worth I think you're spot on. Intellectual muscle > sensational pleasure any day of the week.
Thank you.
But if there's one thing I've learned, it's that people really hate being told that their way of life is inferior to yours. It really sets them off - whether you're speaking the truth or not.
I wasn't saying anybody's way of life is inferior. I was merely making a very obvious statement about the nature of humanity. It's far from a new idea and I've never known it to be very controversial before, let along "arrogant."
Yes, exploration is inspired by those two things. But it's also inspired by other things. I doubt some of the European explorers had art and science on their minds when they went to North and South America. Some of them went to escape difficult lives in Europe. Some came to convert people to the Church. Others came for sheer greed - they wanted gold, gems, furs, anything to make them rich. As for art... they destroyed an incredible amount of art and writings set down by artistic, literate people. This is a cultural treasure that the human race will never recover, unless somebody, someday, invents a time machine to go back and record what was there before it was destroyed.
Of course, you're absolutely right. I never said that the Arts & Sciences are the
only attributes of mankind. You're talking about things like survival, aggression, and territorialism-- but these are attributes that are common throughout the animal kingdom, not attributes that uniquely identify humanity.
I've never been a spelunker, so I can't say from personal experience what motivates them. From documentaries, curiosity looks to be the common motive among them. Many are scientists in various fields. And one of the things I've noticed is that they bring back fantastic photos and video and some of them have been quite eloquent in describing the beauty of what they've seen. There aren't many people on the planet who will be able to experience this for themselves, since it's a really difficult thing to get to these caves. So I think you do a disservice by dismissing people like spelunkers. I don't know how many of them may also have an interest in SF/F, but they do have a definite eye for Nature's beauty.
I didn't dismiss spelunking. I think it's great. I dismissed skydiving. I said spelunking does not negate imagination and curiosity. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
The point is that you were trying to slap a definition of what "humanity" is that pretty much discards anyone that isn't an artist or an intellectual.
We're all human. The artists, the scientists, the athletes, the thrll seekers, the lazy bum who lives in the gutter...every single one of us is human.
I never said otherwise. I never said that one must be a brilliant novelist to be human. I said the Arts & Sciences are what defines humanity. You don't have to paint to appreciate the Mona Lisa. You don't have to work at Mt. Palomar to look at the sky and feel wonderment.
There is nothing about Art that makes it inherently more "human" than skydiving.
This, though, I definitely disagree with. Skydiving is a mere adrenaline rush. Probably a lot of fun for a lot of people-- which is fine-- but it is not an expression of humanity. Now, if you were to write a poem about skydiving....
Yep, science fiction is just that, a genre. Not in any way better than other genres when it comes to art.
Not to further digress or muddy the water, but I do disagree with this. The Arts & Sciences are the essence of humanity, and Science Fiction-- real Science Fiction-- is the synergy of the Arts & Sciences. But that's not what I'm talking about here; that's why I said "the creative genres." In the context of this conversation, it's more about that having an imagination and a sense of wonder is better than not having an imagination and sense of wonder.
