The Klingons got more depth from the promo stuff of Discovery than a lot of Prime material.
Still No DSC Casting Announcement for New Captain?
- Thread starter Vger23
- Start date
Really? Compared to how they were handled in DS9 or heck even later seasons of tng? The prune headed guys? Really? The guys we saw like two of? One of which was a sleeper agent for most of his time? The other was placed in charge of an empire because she has a dead mans switch which would blow up the planet? Like I would say this isn't even criticism of the writing, this is just a case of we only saw two Klingons really for the whole show.
I reckon we got more depth from one meal with the prime Klingons than Disco managed for them in a season.
I think it was a lie from the get go that Burnham was not going to be the captain, they planned her to get the big seat eventually. And unlike those other things, this is probably a good development. I just wish they gonna do it sooner than later, constantly switching the captain will get silly.
Yeah, not really impressed with Berman Era Klingons. A few standouts on the acting end, but I prefer the TOS version.
I like L'Rell in spite of the horrible S1 finale. That episode was a mess.
Yeah the two (one and half?) were more interesting than the Viking Space Bikers.
I think we got more nuance than that. Now granted I have like four shows to cherry pick from here so I'm not calling this a fair fight but compare this to the lawyer in Ent, the chancellor driven mad with power or the loyal soldier who had to stop him, the ageing klingons out for revenge or the widow trying to get his wife a place in heaven. The most Disco had was klingons afraid that starfleet would win via culture and from within rather than by fighting and I still get the feeling that has been touched on before.
A planned twist? Like Ash? I'm not doubting you at all I just wish this wasn't so and they spent more time trying to be like early m night shyamalan rather than late era m night shyamalan. The prior had a twist ina good story the later has a story built up to service a twist you know is coming. As I say I've always fancied a Hornblower esque Star Trek where we follow one ensign or cadet over seven seasons with different ships and crews as they rise through the ranks.
I agree that we can't keep switching he captain on the show though as I'm one of those that thinks Pike will be around for four or five before departing rather than the season long that some believe.
The Lawyer in ENT was a step in the right direction.
Variation of the Space Viking mostly. But damn, Colicos could really chew up a scene!
The "culture" is too one note. The personalities are too. Give me the TOS Klingons with their cunning and guile.
May I ask then what is Disco, from the Klingons, have you seen that has really moved away from this? They are afraid of the feds at the start because the humans are fighting with culture and words rather than weapons and ships (from what I can remember) and from there we see one torture room, some space shots and that's about it.
The idea that their culture way of life is being destroyed through the Federation encroachment. Which is more depth of motivation than I found in Berman Trek. The feeling of sacrifice from Voq and L'Rell as Voq became Tyler. Her pain when she saw Voq was gone. Kol OTOH, was more of Berman Space Viking.
Don't confuse superficial cliche as depth.
I think it was always implied she'd be captain at some point. I don't think it was actual lie. I never once assumed she wouldn't be.
The musical chairs with captains is why I think she'll officially get it by the end of the season. They can't keep doing that. I know some people want Saru as Captain but look at Saru's actual screen time. It's not the highest in the cast even though he's a main character. All that make up will take its toll on Doug Jones. He's likely not going to want to up the hours he's in it and they're likely not going to be willing to do that either, no matter how much some people want an alien captain. There are many logistical reasons why it's not reasonable on a regular basis.
They're not going to skip the lead actor for the position and want to deal with the blow back that would come from doing that. First lead black female but she's going to be stuck with the commander rank the entire series!? There is already an issue with them starting off the two black leads in Trek as commanders instead of captains like all the other leads. Don't think that isn't noticed by people either. Yeah it's fire they're playing with here if they do this wrong.
I do agree it was always the goal to make her captain, but not until later. I think they were going to try to bring in someone else to hold the char for a while (meaning a few seasons), perhaps even Romijn. But I can't help but wonder if maybe The Shape of Water changed things.
Not really, not for me. TUC was about as deep as I felt it got. The rest was, as @Nerys Myk notes, variations on Space Vikings. The actors gave it a lot more depth, but the larger cultural touchstones were variations of "glory" and "honor."
I'll put it this way-I wanted to see more of DISCO's Klingons. I was tired of Berman Era Klingons, and struggled to get in to ENT because the first shot was a Klingon getting, um, shot. No thanks.
Okay, but that's not the same thing as saying that the Berman-era Klingons lacked depth.
I mean, there has never been a Trek alien culture which is more fleshed out in terms of lore. We know about Klingon martial arts, cuisine, music, mythology, politics, language, history - you name it - than any other Trek alien race. Honestly, we arguably know more about Klingon culture than we do about Federation human culture, given very little which isn't a historic reference is ever made clear.
In contrast, TOS Klingons are barely anything. They're just a bunch of treacherous bad guys the Federation is in conflict with. Aside from providing Kahless, nothing much of interest was added to Klingon lore by TOS. Their entire legacy rests with Kor, Koloth, and Kang - mostly due to great performances given. The individual characters might have had depth and nuance, but the race as a whole was a nonentity - an excuse to have those very personal antagonists.
I very much disagree with this. TNG and DS9 made it clear as time went on that the Klingon interpretation of "honor" was pretty multilayered. Klingons could talk a good talk about being honorable warriors, but in truth they cared much more about public appearance than having any sort of coherent code of conduct. This is why Worf had so many issues as a character. He was mostly raised by humans, meaning he took Klingon culture both literally and seriously, whereas anyone raised Klingon would know that while cultural norms should be followed, there were unspoken ways in which the letter of the law could be ignored.
Similar threads
