Stewart calls Nemesis 'pretty weak'

[NCC-73515]

I didn't like it because of easily avoidable mistakes like deck 29 (didn't exist, couldn't have a deep shaft), an unused design of the E in the shield diagram, B4 being a novelty when Lore had appeared several times before and it seemed like they all forgot, cadet Picard being bald just so we really do understand it's the same guy (when he wasn't bald in Tapestry), them showing the pre-warp civilization a flying shuttle. Baird came across as very arrogant and unlikable on the DVD. Didn't mind Data's death that much, it made him more human.

 

[doylem1]

Up until the final battle with the Scimitar I and my Dad were like wtf are we watching, The film was very weak. The space battle was the only good thing about it but it was kind of a more grand version of Kirk and General Kangs in Undiscovered Country.

 

[Winterwind]

I have to disagree with Stewart.

INS was pretty weak. NEM was what happens in the morning after a night of eating Taco Bell and drinking Guinness.

 

[Tosk]

Regarding the dune buggy scene... that wasn't Sir Patrick's idea. It was Baird's (as Baird himself states here).

Maybe.

1. Note that the part of the text that attributes it directly to Baird ("one thing I did was") is inserted by the author of the article. Baird himself didn't say it.
2. John Logan wrote the first draft of the script before Stuart Baird was ever hired*.
3. I haven't yet found a direct reference that confirms whether or not the chase was in the first draft, there is at least one quote that arguably points towards it**.

* "I was brought on by Paramount asking me if I’d be interested in doing it. I wasn’t sure, because I hadn’t seen it. It wasn’t that I wasn’t a fan, it’s that I just hadn’t watched them. Then I read the script by John Logan, which was a really solid story[...]" -- Stuart Baird.

** "Rick Berman was shocked during my first pitch when I said, “I think this script has one exterior action sequence and everything else is on ships or on planets." -- John Logan.

 

[Phily B]

I just can't believe with all the people on board, anyone thought a dune buggy sequence in Star Trek was a good idea, let alone one where they end up gunning down indigenous people. It was that weird period of Trek where they decided to start trying to appeal to a newer audience.

The best you can say about Nemesis, is that it was the most cinematic of the TNG movies.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Maybe.

1. Note that the part of the text that attributes it directly to Baird ("one thing I did was") is inserted by the author of the article. Baird himself didn't say it.
2. John Logan wrote the first draft of the script before Stuart Baird was ever hired*.
3. I haven't yet found a direct reference that confirms whether or not the chase was in the first draft, there is at least one quote that arguably points towards it**.

* "I was brought on by Paramount asking me if I’d be interested in doing it. I wasn’t sure, because I hadn’t seen it. It wasn’t that I wasn’t a fan, it’s that I just hadn’t watched them. Then I read the script by John Logan, which was a really solid story[...]" -- Stuart Baird.

** "Rick Berman was shocked during my first pitch when I said, “I think this script has one exterior action sequence and everything else is on ships or on planets." -- John Logan.

None of all this indicates that it was Sir Patrick's idea, though. All it leaves is that it was either Logan or Baird. I guess people automatically assume it was all Sir Patrick's idea because he was so fond of the scene since it involved him doing almost all of the driving stunts himself, and he loved the car so much that he even considered buying it. As I said, it might not have been his idea initially but he definitely didn't fight it in any way and apparently didn't view it as particularly out of character for Jean-Luc, so that fact still remains. OR... he did say something but Baird insisted on keeping the scene in because he was so fond of all the action sequences. Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Tosk]

None of all this indicates that it was Sir Patrick's idea, though.

I didn't say it did. I was just presenting the facts as I found them. Hence my "maybe".

 

[Alexander Corrino]

I didn't say it did. I was just presenting the facts as I found them. Hence my "maybe".

Gotcha. All good. Sorry if I seemed like as if I was trying to be overly defensive, I get like that sometimes when it comes to Sir Patrick since I like him so much (while also trying to combine this with the fact that I absolutely do NOT like Insurrection and Nemesis).

 

[Blooded]

I remember when the full script showed up online. It was a very good read, and differed quite significantly from what we ultimately saw on screen.

I rewatched this a week or two ago, in preparation for Picard. It's not a bad film, but it's not great, either. I would think that, were Shinzon a stronger villain right throughout, the film would hold up a lot better.

Visually, it was incredible, though, and still holds up now. That final space battle still looks fantastic now, and the Enterprise E never looked better. We've seen so much destruction in movies since, that I think some might now underestimate just how awesome that whole sequence was when they rammed the Enterprise into Shinzon's ship.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Visually, it was incredible, though, and still holds up now. That final space battle still looks fantastic now, and the Enterprise E never looked better. We've seen so much destruction in movies since, that I think some might now underestimate just how awesome that whole sequence was when they rammed the Enterprise into Shinzon's ship.

I saw the movie with a friend of mine (who was not even a casual Trek fan) and she was utterly fascinated by the visual effects. She said she enjoyed those the most. (I couldn't really comment at the time because I was a little preoccupied with the fact that I'd just realized how much I liked that guy in the Enterprise-E's captain's chair. Ahem.) But yeah. Agreed. The visuals are definitely good. No issue there for me either.

 

[Seven of Five]

It's a hit-and-miss film. It starts well with the coup on Romulas and the foreboding music and then diving into the wedding. Shinzon is an interesting enough villain, but his fight against Earth is nonsense.

The humor is pretty cringeworthy, and B4 is a strange character that is hard to feel anything for.

The dune buggy scene is totally pointless, and seeing Picard with God-mode on as he fights his way through wave after wave of Reman soldiers is pure silliness.

I do remember feeling breathless the first time I saw the Enterprise collide into the Reman ship, though. That particular fight was very well done, and probably the most caught up I was watching a ship battle since TWOK.

I think as a whole, it's better than INS and TFF. There is a decent film buried amongst some questionable execution.

 

[Lance]

Very weak, but even weaker as an ending to the TNG movies. I could stomach it easier if it were somewhere in the middle, but for being the last time we would see our beloved characters (until PIC), it was a sorry end, so I could also see why Stewart was more satisfied with Logan as an ending.

And more so even as an ending to The Next Generation. Not just the movies, but the whole shebang going way back to 'Encounter At Farpoint'.

When the TNG entered into the movies in 1994 it was at their peak. Everyone felt assured this franchise would go on and continue to hit dizzying heights. That they essentially crashed and burned, and fizzled out on such a low, is probably one of the most disappointing things.

 

[Lance]

of course it didn't help that Nemisis came out around the time of the second Potter & LOTR and even Bond (mega blockbusters the previous TNG films didn't have to contend with. Even the JJ films didn't have anything like those around). abit like if they released the next Trek inbetween Avengers 5, Star Wars X and Bond 26

See also Star Trek V bombing in the 'Great summer of blockbusters' where it faced up against Ghostbusters II, Tim Burton's Batman, Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade. Not saying either movie would've been better recieved, but they may have performed better without that competition.

 

[Lance]

I don't think anyone had a good experience working on this movie. The writer and the director thought they were both making a masterpiece, but everyone else is so disengaged from the material and it shows in their performances. Even Stewart, who by this stage had the X-Men franchise riding high and took a pay cut from his Professor Xavier wages so that Paramount could even afford to have him in the movie, isn't engaging with the character in this one. Everybody looks listless, tired, and like they're all ready to call it a day. Guest star Tom Hardy attempted suicide after making it. Nobody enjoyed being in this movie and it really truly shows.

 

[Khan 2.0]

And more so even as an ending to The Next Generation. Not just the movies, but the whole shebang going way back to 'Encounter At Farpoint'.

yes Nemesis was pretty much The Rise of Skywalker of its time.

See also Star Trek V bombing in the 'Great summer of blockbusters' where it faced up against Ghostbusters II, Tim Burton's Batman, Indiana Jones And The Temple of Doom. Not saying either movie would've been better recieved, but they may have performed better without that competition.

its interesting that out of all the movies the ones with the most fierce competition mustve been II, III, V, Nem and the 3 JJs. obviously there was no problem for any aside V and Nem (and maybe Bey but most summer movies of 2016 underperformed anyway) so had they been great movies they could've held their own

 

[Armus]

And more so even as an ending to The Next Generation. Not just the movies, but the whole shebang going way back to 'Encounter At Farpoint'.

When the TNG entered into the movies in 1994 it was at their peak. Everyone felt assured this franchise would go on and continue to hit dizzying heights. That they essentially crashed and burned, and fizzled out on such a low, is probably one of the most disappointing things.

Perfectly stated.

 

[Lance]

See, it's the thing which kind of taints "All Good Things" as a series finale to me. Because there's no shortage of people saying it's the most perfect series finale, myself included, and it *is* the series finale, but the reality is that it isn't TNG's finale. That's Nemesis. Even the existence of ST: Picard doesn't change that, that show is more than a spin off sequel that reprises characters but it isn't, as such, the continuation of those adventures. Nemesis stands as the final bone fide The Next Generation adventure.

And it tries, God it does genuinely try, but Baird left many of the character moments and kisses to the past on the cutting room floor and the whole depressive mess feels like a complete antithesis to All Good Things optimistic, sky's the limit, anything could happen ending. The whole affair feels like a funeral. Almost the worst possible way they could have chosen to end TNG.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I really liked Nemesis when I saw it on VHS in 2002 and on bluray in 2019. It was fun to see old friends go on another adventure, and Shinzon was a surprisingly good baddie. A badly damaged and broken-from-a-young-age version of Picard? Yes please.

A lot of people complained that his motivations didn't make much sense, but those people clearly have never spent much time around people with serious mental health issues.

I'm really glad it's such a big part of the Picard backstory.

 

[PhotoBoy]

I really must rewatch that final battle sequence, I always remember being really disappointed that the plot nebula prevented other Starfleet starships from showing up to support the Enterprise. I was hoping for another epic space battle like the one from the start of First Contact.

 

[Damian]

I really must rewatch that final battle sequence, I always remember being really disappointed that the plot nebula prevented other Starfleet starships from showing up to support the Enterprise. I was hoping for another epic space battle like the one from the start of First Contact.

On the one hand it might have been cool to see some epic fleet battle. But then I recall DS9 where we did have fleetwide battles and the action got a bit diluted with all the ships. In some ways it was better keeping the focus between the Enterprise and the Scimitar. It ended up being an epic battle. And the collision scene was intense. That final battle is everything I always wanted to see in a Star Trek movie finally. TWOK was good but it wasn't sustained and continuous. There were long breaks in between. TUC had a good battle but it was a bit too one sided until the final 15 seconds when the Enterprise and Excelsior locked on. I wish that sequence was a bit longer. First Contact was great but too brief. Nemesis had it all. It was sustained, mostly continuous and featured some great sequences (and sound effects).

And someone noted once it was even better than the battles seen in the Abrams-verse movies because the Enterprise, while damaged, still managed to hold its own. In the Abrams-verse movies the Enterprise got its butt kicked and didn't seem to put up much of a fight. And it was greatly overmatched. Not sure why they got some perverse pleasure by showing the Enterprise being bullied all the time