Steve reviews 'Journey To Babel'
- Thread starter The Salt Umpire
- Start date
I haven't seen the video as of yet. But I hope he points out the obvious flaw in Kirk's corridor fighting techniques there.
Last edited:
He doesn't, but at least he does obliquely point out the stupidity of Kirk not knowing Sarek and Amanda are Spock's folks. 
That is really the only part of the episode that falls flat for me. It's just a "cold open" dramatic hook - one that was spoiled in the preview the week before.
This is a really solid review of what I consider one of the top 5 of the series and my favorite "Spock" episode. Pretty much perfectly constructed with great personal stakes, flawless casting and masterclass performances. Everyone brings their A-game. This episode deserved an original score, but the music was well spotted.
That is really the only part of the episode that falls flat for me. It's just a "cold open" dramatic hook - one that was spoiled in the preview the week before. This is a really solid review of what I consider one of the top 5 of the series and my favorite "Spock" episode. Pretty much perfectly constructed with great personal stakes, flawless casting and masterclass performances. Everyone brings their A-game. This episode deserved an original score, but the music was well spotted.
You must love that channel more than I love Allison's.
There are lots of review channels, like this one:
Or this:
Or one of my favorite channels (just not regarding the Babel episode):
Or oodles of others.
Those all only go so far, and it takes a lot longer to whip up a view of any style, regardless of how few camera jump cuts or other effects, than to write up something.
So here's my take on the story along with the takes of everyone else responding in this thread:
I've not seen JtB in several years. The last I had watched it, it felt like proto-TNG in some ways with greater emphasis on drama. Yet doesn't fall into generic soap opera, that's how good DC Fontana was. It's not my favorite tale of season 2, but it's nowhere near the worst - it's in the top third of the season for sure. But I'll put "Friday's Child" above it... Fontana rarely wrote a clunker, but I'm straying:
This episode does do a slight retcon from an early episode where Spock talks of a distant ancestor marrying his human (WHMHGB, the second pilot), but fast forward to the end of 1967 and now said ancestor is his actual father. IMHO it's worth it as it tightens up the Trek universe without doing anything egregious* and adds much to Spock (and Sarek). The real fun is explaining why Spock acted so out of character, despite this technically being a pilot episode that was chucked into be aired to save on costs as the show was very expensive for the time.
* especially as this is TOS and coming up with ideas by the seat of their pants on the fly and improvising as they had no "series Bible" or whatever the vernacular is...
I say "proto-TNG" as this was still TOS, where Gene R. had to make changes so that the suits would greenlight it. ("The Cage" even feeling far closer to TNG than TOS ever had.) So obviously there's some action and fisticuffs and a dogfight despite never getting to see the other ship until TOS-R rendered one.
The story has two new alien creations, the Andorians and Tellurites. The costumes may have been reused in later TOS episodes but the species were never expanded on (a rarity for TOS, where the most we got were both Klingons and Romulans returning and only to say how they're "warrior species". TNG definitely brought in more nuance to many species, even if it often compartmentalized one element of the human condition per species for "easier digestion" or whatever phrase you'd want to use. TOS was more situational and macro-level than "navel-gazing" or whatever phraseology fits better anyhow. Which isn't bad, TNG embraced and made most of it good.)
Also, "retro" technically means a recreation/imitation of something of an older style or time and his presentation doesn't fit that in the slightest. "Review of a vintage episode" seems more apposite. But "vintage" generally pertains to fermented grape products, so "antique" may be a better description. Then again, there's no de facto description for that regarding how long ago (25 years for some items, 100 for others), so "vintage" does work... especially as it's easier to find "vintage television shows" rather than "antique television shows" (of which searches often bring up completely nonrelated results, isn't that peachy?) Then again, "vintage televisions shows" ranges from "Gilligans Island" (and stuff before) all the way up to "3rd Rock from the Sun" (1996).) Ah piffle, it's "classic television shows", that works the best by far.
There are lots of review channels, like this one:
Or this:
Or one of my favorite channels (just not regarding the Babel episode):
Or oodles of others.
Those all only go so far, and it takes a lot longer to whip up a view of any style, regardless of how few camera jump cuts or other effects, than to write up something.
So here's my take on the story along with the takes of everyone else responding in this thread:
I've not seen JtB in several years. The last I had watched it, it felt like proto-TNG in some ways with greater emphasis on drama. Yet doesn't fall into generic soap opera, that's how good DC Fontana was. It's not my favorite tale of season 2, but it's nowhere near the worst - it's in the top third of the season for sure. But I'll put "Friday's Child" above it... Fontana rarely wrote a clunker, but I'm straying:
This episode does do a slight retcon from an early episode where Spock talks of a distant ancestor marrying his human (WHMHGB, the second pilot), but fast forward to the end of 1967 and now said ancestor is his actual father. IMHO it's worth it as it tightens up the Trek universe without doing anything egregious* and adds much to Spock (and Sarek). The real fun is explaining why Spock acted so out of character, despite this technically being a pilot episode that was chucked into be aired to save on costs as the show was very expensive for the time.
* especially as this is TOS and coming up with ideas by the seat of their pants on the fly and improvising as they had no "series Bible" or whatever the vernacular is...
I say "proto-TNG" as this was still TOS, where Gene R. had to make changes so that the suits would greenlight it. ("The Cage" even feeling far closer to TNG than TOS ever had.) So obviously there's some action and fisticuffs and a dogfight despite never getting to see the other ship until TOS-R rendered one.
The story has two new alien creations, the Andorians and Tellurites. The costumes may have been reused in later TOS episodes but the species were never expanded on (a rarity for TOS, where the most we got were both Klingons and Romulans returning and only to say how they're "warrior species". TNG definitely brought in more nuance to many species, even if it often compartmentalized one element of the human condition per species for "easier digestion" or whatever phrase you'd want to use. TOS was more situational and macro-level than "navel-gazing" or whatever phraseology fits better anyhow. Which isn't bad, TNG embraced and made most of it good.)
Also, "retro" technically means a recreation/imitation of something of an older style or time and his presentation doesn't fit that in the slightest. "Review of a vintage episode" seems more apposite. But "vintage" generally pertains to fermented grape products, so "antique" may be a better description. Then again, there's no de facto description for that regarding how long ago (25 years for some items, 100 for others), so "vintage" does work... especially as it's easier to find "vintage television shows" rather than "antique television shows" (of which searches often bring up completely nonrelated results, isn't that peachy?) Then again, "vintage televisions shows" ranges from "Gilligans Island" (and stuff before) all the way up to "3rd Rock from the Sun" (1996).) Ah piffle, it's "classic television shows", that works the best by far.
Last edited:
Everyone (including me) focuses on the narrative stupidity of Kirk not knowing his first officer and personal friend's rather famous parents.He doesn't, but at least he does obliquely point out the stupidity of Kirk not knowing Sarek and Amanda are Spock's folks.
What gets lost is that barring that it's Kirk, the acting between Spock, Sarek, and Amanda (and the scoring) is brilliant. Spock is embarrassed and hurt (and having to cover it) and Sarek is absolutely piling it on. I wish there was a way to save this exchange for the audience without it being Kirk. If there was another character who could have been trying to be helpful but ignorant it would have worked.
I think a little bit less of Amanda that she ever allowed these shenanigans to go on.
@Qonundrum — your take that JTB is proto-TNG is brilliant. I have never made that connection, but as soon as you explained it so eloquently, I saw it immediately. Thanks so much for that insight.
I don't generally have a lot of use for review videos because I can't read them quickly like I can something written, and they therefore don't seem to be a productive use of time. But I guess I could watch them on 1.5x speed or whatever YT has available for acceleration options; I've never tried that before.
JTB is not in my top half of episodes, and that's something with which I've always struggled. It has a *lot* going for it, including all the world-building, but I think I prefer to enjoy Spock in my own way without having the producers' take on the character shoved at me forcibly under a spotlight. When Spock fits into the crew, I'm much more interested. It's hard to explain. Also, although JTB is a very good Kirk episode, the lack of Scotty grates. (I have similar issues with "Amok Time.")
I think this board's best explainer / resolver of TOS plot flaws is @ZapBrannigan . Maybe he'll join the thread and give a satisfying explanation of Kirk/Bones not knowing that Sarek and Amanda were Spock's parents. Because this isn't one of my favorites, I haven't spent a lot of time on that question. My off-the-cuff, assuredly low-grade solve is that Spock never shared, Kirk and McCoy never asked, and the Vulcans saw no need to volunteer anything. Since Sarek effectively disowned Spock and cut all ties, he was probably able to keep their relationship known only to a select few in the upper echelons of the UFP. And although our crew are the heroes of the show, they're not running the UFP or even Starfleet.
I don't generally have a lot of use for review videos because I can't read them quickly like I can something written, and they therefore don't seem to be a productive use of time. But I guess I could watch them on 1.5x speed or whatever YT has available for acceleration options; I've never tried that before.
JTB is not in my top half of episodes, and that's something with which I've always struggled. It has a *lot* going for it, including all the world-building, but I think I prefer to enjoy Spock in my own way without having the producers' take on the character shoved at me forcibly under a spotlight. When Spock fits into the crew, I'm much more interested. It's hard to explain. Also, although JTB is a very good Kirk episode, the lack of Scotty grates. (I have similar issues with "Amok Time.")
I think this board's best explainer / resolver of TOS plot flaws is @ZapBrannigan . Maybe he'll join the thread and give a satisfying explanation of Kirk/Bones not knowing that Sarek and Amanda were Spock's parents. Because this isn't one of my favorites, I haven't spent a lot of time on that question. My off-the-cuff, assuredly low-grade solve is that Spock never shared, Kirk and McCoy never asked, and the Vulcans saw no need to volunteer anything. Since Sarek effectively disowned Spock and cut all ties, he was probably able to keep their relationship known only to a select few in the upper echelons of the UFP. And although our crew are the heroes of the show, they're not running the UFP or even Starfleet.
Sarek, I could buy if it was not an uncommon Vulcan name, or perhaps all the Vulcan names that begin with S blend together for some people.
As for the "ancestor" bit, is there anything at that point in TOS's creation which precluded Spock having both ancient, heavily-diluted by that point, Human ancestry way back in his family tree and a Human mother?
He simply says "ancestor". He doesn't say ancient or anything like that. And a father is an ancestor. But by The Naked Time it's specifically his parents. Corbomite Maneuver as well.
Well, it's the pilot and wasn't even expected to air at all., so "ancestor" and "James R Kirk" get a pass from me as simple shaking things out. They aren't "recton's" so much as course corrections.
I like the way you think, that Kirk is "shade blocking" and looking for a way to
Last edited:
Oh no. I wasn't implying that Kirk knows anything or is doing anything intentional. It is what it is. Kirk doesn't know these are Spock's parents and doesn't get that Sarek is disrespecting Spock in a very public fashion.
I'm just saying that everything in the scene except Kirk actually works very well. And the only reason why it doesn't work for Kirk is because Kirk SHOULD know who Spock's parents are. I'm just saying that if you had a character who isn't Kirk where this misunderstanding could be believable then the whole thing could work.
Why did they decide to make it his father who married a human (mother)?
Defuse. De-fuse.
"Certain you don't know what irritation is, Mr. Spock?"
"The fact that one of my ancestors married a human female..."
"Terrible having bad blood like that."
Thanks, @Phaser Two!
If you figure Spock never talked about his family, which makes sense if his father was shunning him, that just leaves the question of "Amok Time," which came along weeks earlier.
I'd say it's a Vulcan tradition for the groom's parents not to attend his wedding. If you are deep in the Plak Tow, so torqued up for your wedding night that you can't see straight— you want that babe so bad— then it follows that you don't want Mom and Dad watching. So of course Kirk never met the folks.
Glad that's the most you got out of my post - but thanks, edited the original accordingly.... I'm sure you'll be busy correcting everyone else's grammatical errors, so you may not see this for a bit.
Last edited:
Except:
"My mother was a teacher, my father an ambassador."
Kirk knew which parent was Vulcan and which was Human by this time. Unless the Vulcan has a few Federation ambassadors with human wives making the rounds, Kirk should have put it together well before the shuttle had gotten there since he didn't seemed even slightly shocked that Sarek's wife was human.
Seriously, stop talking to me. You're adding nothing to the topic. Thanks.
I would think that this would not just be a case of "Spock is a very private person". I would imagine that there is a lot about Spock that Kirk knows that we do not because Kirk spent more time with Spock LAST WEEK than we ever have. (I assume they discussed his foster sister often.)
But I would think (and someone with any kind of comparable real life experience could tell me I'm wrong) that if Kirk doesn't know who Spock's parents are just from some kind of personnel file he has read then some higher up at Starfleet might have put a bug in Kirk's ear "Hey, this is the Vulcan ambassador's son".
I suppose there may be some kind of confidentiality rules in place that we don't know about at which point we may well fall back on "Spock is a very private person." "In the family all is silence."
I have always wondered if the line "I know your father is the Vulcan ambassador for heaven's sake" from The Undiscovered Country was a gentle jab at this. (Assuming that the writers knew this scene and made anything of it.) Otherwise it's just a quick piece of exposition for a possibly unaware audience.
But I would think (and someone with any kind of comparable real life experience could tell me I'm wrong) that if Kirk doesn't know who Spock's parents are just from some kind of personnel file he has read then some higher up at Starfleet might have put a bug in Kirk's ear "Hey, this is the Vulcan ambassador's son".
I suppose there may be some kind of confidentiality rules in place that we don't know about at which point we may well fall back on "Spock is a very private person." "In the family all is silence."
I have always wondered if the line "I know your father is the Vulcan ambassador for heaven's sake" from The Undiscovered Country was a gentle jab at this. (Assuming that the writers knew this scene and made anything of it.) Otherwise it's just a quick piece of exposition for a possibly unaware audience.
Implying he experienced/observed it in his own presence (and therefore probably household), you mean?
(Because I was asking, when did they decide it would be his father's wife who was Human, not his grandfather's or great-grandfather's, say.)
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Poll
