STC Episode 6 (news and speculation)....

[DCR]

I expect it to look and sound great. The performances will for the most part be solid, and much better than many other fan films. Vic's Kirk will be great fun to watch, Todd's Spock will be just that little bit lacking in presence but otherwise decent.

I'm just not convinced the writing will pass the threshold of basically competent but uninspired. It will probably also feel more like a TNG story than a TOS one.

 

[Bixby]

I agree with DCR. The last 3 STC episodes have been entertaining, but not really ABOUT anything unlike what most feel was their best one, Lolani, which dealt with modern-day slavery and to a lesser extent the accompanying sexual exploitation.

You could argue that the last few years have had a resurgence of social upheaval very much like the 1960s, it's just a shame the fanfilm community doesn't use more of these as a starting point for interesting stories. You can bet if Roddenberry and Gene Coon were around today they'd tackle topics like rampant colliding religious extremisms, class warfare, the snuffing of education for political control, ecological exploitation, ethnic paranoia, gender repression, fascism, weapons fetichism,...

 

[Karzak]

That probably has as much to do with the fact that most of the people writing fan films don't have the foggiest idea what constitutes real, trained writing skill.

That's not an attack; it's an acknowledgement which I think is more than proven by the lackluster and disappointing (story-wise) results we have gotten from New Voyages, Continues, and some of the other fan films over the years (Dominion, Excalibur, Axanar, Renegades, etc.)

The majority of these people are fans of course, and as such they aren't professional writers and I can give them slack for that. But then you have the ones who are professionals (or at least want you to believe they are (*ahem, Cushman*) and still deliver sloppy, lazy scripts.

Not all of the writing in fan films is terrible. That's not what i'm saying. But the majority of it is pretty crudely done and does not live up to the standard to which they aspire. Time and again its a criticism leveled at most of these fan films (particularly the big name productions) and time and again that particular criticism goes unheeded.

I get that Continues is Vic's baby and as such he has final say on everything and plays a central role in several key areas, but one which he would be quite well off to acknowledge and hand off to someone would be to give these scripts to a brass-knucled editor who can then call out the chinks the armor so to speak and help smooth the rough edges, fill the plot holes, and tighten the overall story to be more cohesive. Ditto to Cawley, Broughton, etc. You solve that problem, and a lot of the other problems/criticisms go away.

 

[Jay]

I get that Continues is Vic's baby and as such he has final say on everything and plays a central role in several key areas, but one which he would be quite well off to acknowledge and hand off to someone would be to give these scripts to a brass-knucled editor who can then call out the chinks the armor so to speak and help smooth the rough edges, fill the plot holes, and tighten the overall story to be more cohesive. Ditto to Cawley, Broughton, etc. You solve that problem, and a lot of the other problems/criticisms go away.

Isn't David Gerrold now showrunner for New Voyages/P2? I assume that means head writer/editor right?

 

[Newnham]

it comes down to the maxim that it doesn't matter how good the actors are, or how good the effects are, if the script isn't up to scratch then it won't be very good.. or at least not as good as it should be.

 

[Bixby]

Isn't David Gerrold now showrunner for New Voyages/P2? I assume that means head writer/editor right?

He's supposed to be, though Greg here can probably confirm. IIRC when he took over is when they decided to completely redo last year's Mind-Sifter episode from scratch.

 

[Karzak]

I get that Continues is Vic's baby and as such he has final say on everything and plays a central role in several key areas, but one which he would be quite well off to acknowledge and hand off to someone would be to give these scripts to a brass-knucled editor who can then call out the chinks the armor so to speak and help smooth the rough edges, fill the plot holes, and tighten the overall story to be more cohesive. Ditto to Cawley, Broughton, etc. You solve that problem, and a lot of the other problems/criticisms go away.

Isn't David Gerrold now showrunner for New Voyages/P2? I assume that means head writer/editor right?

Last I knew, yes. But the Gerrold as showrunner (a job he's never done before) is an entirely different matter. I'm talking about the script editing. If he's the one editing their scripts and has final say on them, then respectfully, they need to get someone else in there to help with that because none of the New Voyages offerings thus far have been that great. Kitumba, Blood and Fire, The Child, Enemy: Starfleet all had tons of issues. Mind-Sifter as well had problems, but was a very good return to form in many other ways. I don't want to brow-beat the New Voyages people because they do good work too, but they're no different than Continues -- both groups need serious help with their writing and the editing of their writing.

 

[Kor]

It would be nice if these productions had people with significant professional experience in television writing and editing. But such individuals are (rightfully) busy with their own careers, and probably wouldn't have the desire nor the time do such work for free.

Kor

 

[Karzak]

It would be nice, yes. That said, I don't know that it would be entirely necessary for one to be a professional in the industry to be someone who edits these scripts. Really, anyone who can read the scripts and point out the obvious flaws would be a helpful starting point. Half the battle though seems to be that the productions themselves just can't tell the forest from the trees with their writing and are either too close to the material to be able to edit it themselves, or are possessed of an ego either too large or too sensitive/insecure (or both) to recognize that they need that editor -- and badly.

 

[Maurice]

I was sorely disappointed in what an anti-dramatic mess the "Blood and Fire" script was, and that was Gerrold's baby, so I don't know how much of a difference he will make to NV.

I think it's important to note that it isn't just good writers that matter, it's Producers who know what makes for good TV. Having read a lot of the TOS memos related to various scripts, it's pretty clear that Roddenberry and company had a LOT to do with fixing the problems in the scripts of their pro writers. You need both the good writers and the good-with-story Producers. As fanfilms are largely run by people without those kind of producing chops, the often lackluster results are really unsurprising.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I was sorely disappointed in what an anti-dramatic mess the "Blood and Fire" script was, and that was Gerrold's baby, so I don't know how much of a difference he will make to NV.

I think it's important to note that it isn't just good writers that matter, it's Producers who know what makes for good TV. Having read a lot of the TOS memos relates to various scripts, it's pretty clear than Roddenberry and company had a LOT to do with fixing the problems in the scripts of their pro writers. You need both the good writers and the good-with-story Producers. As fanfilms are largely run by people without those kind of producing chops, the often lackluster results are really unsurprising.

Fanfilm producers know what will please some fans, or more likely what would please them as fans. However, that doesn't always translate into compelling television — as we've seen in a lot of these efforts.

 

[Karzak]

I was sorely disappointed in what an anti-dramatic mess the "Blood and Fire" script was, and that was Gerrold's baby, so I don't know how much of a difference he will make to NV.

I think it's important to note that it isn't just good writers that matter, it's Producers who know what makes for good TV. Having read a lot of the TOS memos relates to various scripts, it's pretty clear than Roddenberry and company had a LOT to do with fixing the problems in the scripts of their pro writers. You need both the good writers and the good-with-story Producers. As fanfilms are largely run by people without those kind of producing chops, the often lackluster results are really unsurprising.

Fanfilm producers know what will please some fans, or more likely what would please them as fans. However, that doesn't always translate into compelling television — as we've seen in a lot of these efforts.

Agreed, entirely.

 

[Kor]

It would be nice, yes. That said, I don't know that it would be entirely necessary for one to be a professional in the industry to be someone who edits these scripts. Really, anyone who can read the scripts and point out the obvious flaws would be a helpful starting point. Half the battle though seems to be that the productions themselves just can't tell the forest from the trees with their writing and are either too close to the material to be able to edit it themselves, or are possessed of an ego either too large or too sensitive/insecure (or both) to recognize that they need that editor -- and badly.

Good points. When D.C. Fontana worked as story editor for TOS (and wrote several scripts), wasn't that her first time doing work of that type? She was previously Gene Roddenberry's secretary.

However, some previous experience or training would be really helpful. I would say that many people simply wouldn't be able to spot flaws or fundamental weaknesses in story structure, even if such things were obvious to an industry pro. Commercial storytelling isn't quite intuitive, as there are certain structures that need to be adhered to in order to make something that will sell.

Maybe they could scout local colleges for people doing TV production coursework. At least they are trained by pros, and they probably wouldn't mind having something like this on their resume as a starting point for their careers.

Kor

 

[Jedman67]

...

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

It would be nice, yes. That said, I don't know that it would be entirely necessary for one to be a professional in the industry to be someone who edits these scripts. Really, anyone who can read the scripts and point out the obvious flaws would be a helpful starting point. Half the battle though seems to be that the productions themselves just can't tell the forest from the trees with their writing and are either too close to the material to be able to edit it themselves, or are possessed of an ego either too large or too sensitive/insecure (or both) to recognize that they need that editor -- and badly.

Good points. When D.C. Fontana worked as story editor for TOS (and wrote several scripts), wasn't that her first time doing work of that type? She was previously Gene Roddenberry's secretary.

D.C. Fontana's work on TOS may have been her first time as a "story editor," but she was hardly an inexperienced writer. She had several freelance writing credits, including a few westerns, to her name before working as Roddenberry's secretary.

She also used to read a lot of freelance scripts when she was a secretary — first for Samuel Peeples on "The Tall Man" and then for Roddenberry.

Fontana talks more about her time before, during and after "Star Trek" in this WGA interview:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCSp8TnnbNU[/yt]

 

[Harvey]

She also had to rewrite what became This Side of Paradise. Roddenberry made her prove she could fix up another writer's script into shooting shape before she got the job.

 

[Christopher Miles]

How in the world are they able to crank out these episodes so fast? And quality, to boot!

As I understand it much (if not all) of the principle photography for Ep. 5 was done at the same time as Ep. 4, so that would greatly help get Ep. 5 out faster.

If they could continue that practice it would greatly speed things up. That assumes, of course, having scripts ready early.

While I admire their speed, I hope that they continue to bake in time enough to really revise scripts because it feels a lot like some first or even second drafts are being filmed. Some of the ideas, plot points, dialogue, etc. feels undercooked.

I'm with you, but some prefer speed of release and don't mind a little Al Dente.

Mind you, that means these almost cooked eps seem to need a little extra chewing from the audience.

I think that perfect sweet spot is a schedule that bakes in enough time for great script AND direction (re-takes if necessary) then an announcement of release date that's realistic based on the above.

Once a release date is announced, though- I think it's important that it be met. Somehow that adds to the overall feeling of a professional production.

From my perspective Star Trek Continues is currently in that "Uncanny Valley" between Fan work and Pro. I suppose this makes some of us a little unnerved-

Many of us here keep nudging the producers - Why? To get us out of the Valley.

We want to be fooled.

 

[Zaminhon]

With the tight scheduling, I think it's about a week for filming, it's amazing that they can get everyone on board to make it happen in the designated time. I read that Fiona Vroom was cast at the last minute because the original actress couldn't make it. What a happy accident. It's not only about the filming but all the pre and post stuff, like getting the score composed and integrated, the VFX have to be done on time - it's mind boggling to consider everything that could go wrong to delay a production. There seems to be a lot of dedication to complete the production on schedule no matter what the obstacles.

 

[Bixby]

When you have about 5-6 months between shooting and release, it's not that hard to get about 5 to 10 relatively simple FX shots that total around 30 seconds done...

 

[northstar]

Indeed, so far the STC episodes have not been very complex or complicated to produce, so with a half way professional crew that is very much doable.