STC Ep. 7: "Embrace The Winds" speculation and discussion....

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Lastly, even though the high voice still gets me, I do like Vic's portrayal of Kirk. While I do see some Shatner-like mannerisms, he's made the character his own. Likewise, I love the way Chris Pine has now made Kirk his own character. (I also like the Spock portrayal; it's not stiff, but reserved like Nimoy's original portrayal).

Vic is certainly the most charismatic of the fan film Kirks. He has a commanding bearing on screen, which Brian Gross lacks. However, Vic veers way too much into impersonating Shatner rather than inhabiting the character.

Side tangent: a couple of friends and I recently watched TMP on the big screen at the Castro Theater in San Francisco. One thing we noticed about Shatner's performance is that he really does inhabit scenes. He is great at using body language to convey what's going on with his character. Just watch the Enterprise departure sequence, you'll see Shatner fiddling his fingers on the armrest, showing his character's anxiousness to get into space. Or how despondent his body language is after Decker saves the ship in the wormhole.

It's something I'm noticing more now when I rewatch an episode of TOS.

To bring it back to Vic's performance, he doesn't really inhabit the scenes when he's mimicking Shatner. There are times when I don't feel he's Kirk in the situation so much as someone playing Shatner playing Kirk in a scene.

Like I said, he's still the best Kirk in any fan film because he is still captivating to watch.

 

[uniderth]

If you really believe so much in moral-relativism then I don't know why you're a Trek fan. Trek promulgates a certain brand of universal secular humanism and the prime-directive is rarely adhered to. That's just how it is.

Yeah, and it's pretty dumb. I find myself yelling at the screen a lot. But in order for the Federation to work there has to be some sort of multi-culturalism. But I like that they at least mad e a (small) dilemma out of it in "The Apple" and Kirk had reality slap him in the face in "A Private Little War."

 

[Christopher Miles]

I had a thorough, off BBS (separately hosted) review planned, which would have served to complement some of the on point remarks made here by Ryan, Warped 9 and others.

I still may post it- following a once over for grammar, spelling and canon/fact accuracy.

However I thought I'd take a moment and post this here- we (loving critics) seem to be observing a perspective problem. Who are the characters and story talking to? Is Continues addressing the audience Indirectly through an engaging and subtle /nuanced story or speaking directly to the audience... as in - "we only have 11 episodes to get from Horatio Hornblower to Gloria Steinem- Subtlety be damned"

If I may- Here is the most clear example of direct vs indirect storytelling- the visual exposition (tm) of the big board behind Commodore Grey's desk. I get the call back.-We all do. That's not the point.

Let's celebrate Spock's promotion with a drink and

A BIG HONKING LIST OF THE SHIPS YOU BOTH WITNESSED EITHER DISAPPEARING OR BEING DESTROYED.

Ouch. (You know Kirk and Spock each still feel responsible for more than a few of those names)

So there you go. Serving the audience by making it clear just how few Starships are left- at the expense of the verisimilitude of the scene. This happens throughout.

Additionally, the expository dialog (lecture) Grey gives the men regarding the founding of the Federation- We (the audience) don't need it- and certainly our intrepid heroes don't need it.

I don't need to rehash the point I made earlier about actual promotion process. A tribunal (with a lie detector) in place of private interviews? Wouldn't the characters be offended at such an affront? Of course they would. Again that scene was audience centric rather than character and story centric.

In the era of the mobile phone, we don't need the telegraph.

I would suggest that in the haste to get this marvelous, quality production though the planned arc to the finish line- they are stepping on the expositional gas pedal (tm) and more often than not- hitting the guard rail. BAM! There goes the episode's fender and a bit of its believability.

If I may squeeze the last ounce of metaphor out of this metaphor... We all know the Continues car is built so well, that it clearly can take more than a few dings.- but let's make it back to Space Dock looking presentable.

Mr Scott wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Valley Forge]

Well, okay, Azetbur. Yes, the genius of TOS lay in how it dealt with human nature and human problems. To perceive this as a flaw is perhaps to miss the whole point of TOS fan films.

That's fine, but if its going to be a "humans only in the clubhouse", then why even bother with the whole Federation motif?

You'd be better off with the B5 "Earth Alliance" where it's just us primates, and you only deal with other species on the periphery. Or you could just say "eh, everyone just sticks to their own ships (IE the Intrepid)", but that doesn't play with the overall Federation togetherness thing.

Keeping storylines restricted to human issues (and in this case, a very outdated one), is a narrow vision. They don't age well, as we see with "The Turnabout Intruder."

That aside, I was never convinced Garret was any kind of officer in line for a command position. You don't get considered for a line command position by being squirrely, overtly defensive and evasive, especially when you have questionable actions in the past. That might work for some promotion to a Chief of All-Things-Unimportant staff position. For a line command position, you get considered when you own your mistakes and take responsibility.

For a prestigious, important (and apparently diminishing number) of coveted command seats, this would be even moreso the case.

Vf

 

[uniderth]

Also I'm curious how much more flak this episode would get if Commodore Grey was a male. I think in today's climate the character had to be female to get away with saying the things she said. I would like to think we have come far enough that one's gender wouldn't matter when discussing issues. At the same time I can just imagine the firestorm this episode would get by having an all male command board weighing in of the issue of women's rights.

 

[mos6507]

We aren't beyond it at all. We're fighting a lot of battles again that were fought 50 years ago. Frankly, I doubt we'll ever all get beyond it. Gene's idea of humanity was one of linking the forward arrow of technological progress to progressive social evolution. Instead I think things like (prejudice, favoritism, nepotism) is hardwired into the tribal nature of the human condition and requires a conscious choice to beat back, generation after generation. To present a society that is completely above it all (ala TNG) is comforting but it also has a detached unreality to it.

 

[9gs]

We aren't beyond it at all. We're fighting a lot of battles again that were fought 50 years ago. Frankly, I doubt we'll ever all get beyond it. Gene's idea of humanity was one of linking the forward arrow of technological progress to progressive social evolution. Instead I think things like (prejudice, favoritism, nepotism) is hardwired into the tribal nature of the human condition and requires a conscious choice to beat back, generation after generation. To present a society that is completely above it all (ala TNG) is comforting but it also has a detached unreality to it.

KHAN: Captain, although your abilities intrigue me, you are quite honestly inferior. Mentally, physically. In fact, I am surprised how little improvement there has been in human evolution. Oh, there has been technical advancement, but, how little man himself has changed. Yes, it appears we will do well in your century, Captain. Do you have any other questions?

 

[JE Smith]

Beverly Garland frequently portrayed strong female types during the 50s and 60s.

Oh man -- I'm a huge Beverly Garland fan. Having her on TOS would have been sweet.

 

[Treadwell]

And "Honey West" was over after the 65-66 season, seems to me (in our theoretical alternate casting universe) Anne Francis could've been squeezed in for a guest shot or a recurring role.

 

[Harvey]

And "Honey West" was over after the 65-66 season, seems to me (in our theoretical alternate casting universe) Anne Francis could've been squeezed in for a guest shot or a recurring role.

Honey West wrapped production on its final episode in early March of 1966. Star Trek wouldn't go before the cameras until late May of that year (outside of the two pilots, already shot in late 1964 and mid-1965, of course). Francis appears to have been available during much of 1966 following her wrap on Honey West, only filming a guest shot on The Fugitive in October of that year.

 

[dswynne1]

We aren't beyond it at all. We're fighting a lot of battles again that were fought 50 years ago. Frankly, I doubt we'll ever all get beyond it. Gene's idea of humanity was one of linking the forward arrow of technological progress to progressive social evolution. Instead I think things like (prejudice, favoritism, nepotism) is hardwired into the tribal nature of the human condition and requires a conscious choice to beat back, generation after generation. To present a society that is completely above it all (ala TNG) is comforting but it also has a detached unreality to it.

Um, sorry, but the first part of this ^ is an example of Utopian BS that is nonsensical is scope. The fact of the matter is that women in the West are given special treatment as a means of remedying past wrongs, to the point that women are statistically better off on a variety of fronts than men. And if you are going to cite the so-called "wage gap" myth, know that there a) is a difference between "earnings" and "wages", and, b) biological imperatives are STILL a deciding factor in many lifestyle changes. If you are talking "globally", then I would agree, but Western societies have done a lot in advancing women's causes. Anything else is subjective, and even then there is an element of cynicism at work, to the point that if you do not support a cause, your motives are suspect.

At any rate, considering what has happened of late, this episode is a nice bookend to STC. It will be missed.

 

[Warped9]

I had a thorough, off BBS (separately hosted) review planned, which would have served to complement some of the on point remarks made here by Ryan, Warped 9 and others.

I still may post it- following a once over for grammar, spelling and canon/fact accuracy.

Christopher Miles, I would like to read your review. Please, post it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Um, sorry, but the first part of this ^ is an example of Utopian BS that is nonsensical is scope. The fact of the matter is that women in the West are given special treatment as a means of remedying past wrongs, to the point that women are statistically better off on a variety of fronts than men. And if you are going to cite the so-called "wage gap" myth, know that there a) is a difference between "earnings" and "wages", and, b) biological imperatives are STILL a deciding factor in many lifestyle changes. If you are talking "globally", then I would agree, but Western societies have done a lot in advancing women's causes. Anything else is subjective, and even then there is an element of cynicism at work, to the point that if you do not support a cause, your motives are suspect.

Horse crap.

 

[mos6507]

Um, sorry, but the first part of this ^ is an example of Utopian BS that is nonsensical is scope.

This, my friends, is where the thread officially devolves into politics.

 

[Wowbagger]

I had some things I wanted to praise, some things I wanted to criticize, and then I realized that none of what I was writing actually captured my overwhelming feeling about this episode:

Relief.

"Embracing the Winds" got released, guys! We got to enjoy an hour of top-shelf Trek fan work, the result of thousands of hours of work from a huge number of volunteers (and, yes, donors). I, for one, felt certain as little as two months ago that this wouldn't happen.

Maybe one day I'll be able to give a balanced review of this episode on the merits. But, for today, I'm just so grateful we saw the episode at all. Thanks to Vic, the STC crew, CBS, and John Van Citters, for allowing it to happen.

 

[Bixby]

Sorry to all the Beverly Garland fans above, but like I said earlier, because she just finished off a starring role in a series less than a year before pretty much guaranteed her then-asking price would have been beyond Trek's and Robert Justman's budget.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

Sorry to all the Beverly Garland fans above, but like I said earlier, because she just finished off a starring role in a series less than a year before pretty much guaranteed her then-asking price would have been beyond Trek's and Robert Justman's budget.

Dude, 50 years. No apology necessary!

 

[Warped9]

Sorry to all the Beverly Garland fans above, but like I said earlier, because she just finished off a starring role in a series less than a year before pretty much guaranteed her then-asking price would have been beyond Trek's and Robert Justman's budget.

She possibly have been good as Number One instead of Majel Barrett.

I've little doubt, though, there might have been some other lesser renowned actresses available who could have played a convincing starship Captain on TOS. It's a damned shame no one came up with an appropriate story to feature a female starship Captain, and a competent one rather than an unhinged one like Decker or Tracey.

Whats really sad, though, is they could have done something as simple as having a woman starship Captain sitting in on Kirk's courtmartial alongside Commodore Stone. Just her presence there even without speaking a word would have been noteworthy. Or if the character of Commodore Wesley--a competent officer--had been cast as a woman.

If only. If only...


The more I think about this the more disappointed I am with "Embracing The Wind." They threw away a perfect opportunity to do something noteworthy only to craft a lightweight yarn that amounts to nothing of substance. Great production values, good characters and good performances undermined for next to nothing.

I have to downgrade this to 2/5.

 

[Harcourt F. Mudd]

I really liked this episode, it tackled many issues head-on in an even-handed and fair way. Embracing The Winds well encapsulated the feeling of headed into a new century, undiscovered country.

But what happened to Sulu? And the antique weaponry??

 

[Warped9]

I really liked this episode, it tackled many issues head-on in an even-handed and fair way. Embracing The Winds well encapsulated the feeling of headed into a new century, undiscovered country.

It did nothing of the kind.