Starship Enterprise vs. Battlestar Galactica

[Neroon]

How about I give you an infraction, just so you can see up close and personal how things work here?

Will it put points on my license?

Your license to post here, yes. Now if you actually want to discuss this, we can conduct that through the PM function. Otherwise, please stick with the topic at hand.

 

[Johnny Rico]

You people are forgetting a couple things.

One is size.

TOS Enterprise and nuGalactica are quite different in size. TOS Enterprise is tiny in comparison. Probably wouldn't even be the size (in heighth) of one of Galactica's hanger bay pods.

Two, support fighters.

Galactica's support Vipers and Raptors would overwhelem Enterprise in a matter of second. It wouldn't have time to fire on Galactic itself. It'd be too busy firing point black defensive lasers to fend of all the Vipers.

Three, Galactic's sheer number of guns. Its anti-Cylon Raider anti-aircraft guns could overwhelm Ent's shields given enough time.

 

[Lindley]

I think in the end it all comes down to whether or not you let the Enterprise have its warp drive available.

 

[Davros]

You people are forgetting a couple things.

One is size.

TOS Enterprise and nuGalactica are quite different in size. TOS Enterprise is tiny in comparison. Probably wouldn't even be the size (in heighth) of one of Galactica's hanger bay pods.

Two, support fighters.

Galactica's support Vipers and Raptors would overwhelem Enterprise in a matter of second. It wouldn't have time to fire on Galactic itself. It'd be too busy firing point black defensive lasers to fend of all the Vipers.

Three, Galactic's sheer number of guns. Its anti-Cylon Raider anti-aircraft guns could overwhelm Ent's shields given enough time.

But none of those fighters or weapons would be able to hit the Enterprise because it would be moving at warp speeds. Since there is no energy shielding on the Galactica fighters all the enterprise would have to do is beam the pilots into holding cells.

I think in the end it all comes down to whether or not you let the Enterprise have its warp drive available.

If you don't you are not making an accurate comparison of the 2 ships battle capablities.

 

[Lindley]

I think in the end it all comes down to whether or not you let the Enterprise have its warp drive available.

If you don't you are not making an accurate comparison of the 2 ships battle capablities.

As I said earlier, you could easily techobabble something up, like saying Galactica's jump drive destabilizes subspace or something. Anything to keep such a debate interesting, because if one side completely dominates that's not much of a conversation.

 

[Davros]

As I said earlier, you could easily techobabble something up, like saying Galactica's jump drive destabilizes subspace or something. Anything to keep such a debate interesting, because if one side completely dominates that's not much of a conversation.

That is why a Star Destroyer make a better matched foe for the Galactica.

 

[3D Master]

You people are forgetting a couple things.

One is size.

TOS Enterprise and nuGalactica are quite different in size. TOS Enterprise is tiny in comparison. Probably wouldn't even be the size (in heighth) of one of Galactica's hanger bay pods.

Size doesn't matter.

Put Bruce Lee against Hulk Hogan, if size matters, Hulk Hogan wins. We all know Bruce Lee will kick the living shit out of Hulk Hogan without breaking a sweat.

It's the same deal with the Galactica and the Enterprise; the Enterprise can fly pirouettes around the Galactica while it just sits there like a beached whale.

Two, support fighters.

Galactica's support Vipers and Raptors would overwhelem Enterprise in a matter of second. It wouldn't have time to fire on Galactic itself. It'd be too busy firing point black defensive lasers to fend of all the Vipers.

No, again, for the umpteenth time, they can NOT. The Vipers would slam against the Enterprise' shields like flies on a windshield. And if the Enterprise remains at the edge of its firing range - 1 lightsecond/300,000km for phasers and several lightseconds for torpedoes - the Vipers can't even GET there before they run out of fuel. Once again, the Enterprise can dance pirouettes around the Galactica and its support craft.

Even one of the Enterprise' shuttles, if armed, would be able to obliterate the Galactica and its support craft with one salvo; that's how totally outmatched it is.

Three, Galactic's sheer number of guns. Its anti-Cylon Raider anti-aircraft guns could overwhelm Ent's shields given enough time.

No, they would NOT. Not only would they not overwhelm the shields, they can't even HIT the shields. Even if the Enterprise allows itself to get within firing distance of the Galactica, its navigational shields will simply nudge all the bullets away from the Enterprise and make them fly past the Enterprise.

If the Enterprise remains at the edge of its firing range, the Galactica won't even be able to target the Enterprise. It would take 2 seconds for their Dradis detection signal to reach the Enterprise and get back (and that is only if the Enterprise doesn't use any of its myriad ECM options to block or scatter the Dradis signal), by which time the Enterprise will be long gone from its position. The Galactica's bullets would take much longer to get there. The Enterprise with FTL sensors will always know exactly where the Galactica is, and can target it with impunity, with weapons that can obliterate the Galactica with one shot.

And that's not even talking about the Enterprise fighting at FTL speeds, at which point the Galactica will never even see the Enterprise.

The technology is such a massive gap, it's asking: fly versus human, who wins. With the fly being the Galactica and the human being the Enterprise, and the fly being glued to one spot.

As I said earlier, you could easily techobabble something up, like saying Galactica's jump drive destabilizes subspace or something. Anything to keep such a debate interesting, because if one side completely dominates that's not much of a conversation.

That is why a Star Destroyer make a better matched foe for the Galactica.

Actually, a better match would be a B5 EarthForce Hyperion. I don't see a Star Destroyer having much trouble with the Galactica.

 

[Lindley]

Okay, here's one then----if the navigational deflectors are powerful enough to apply a constant meganewton force to hundreds of bullets at a time, how is it remotely possible that photon torpedoes ever impact anything?

 

[3D Master]

Okay, here's one then----if the navigational deflectors are powerful enough to apply a constant meganewton force to hundreds of bullets at a time, how is it remotely possible that photon torpedoes ever impact anything?

Because Photon torpedoes are shielded weapons and carry a subspace component. In other words, they are DESIGNED to counteract navigationanl shields, and to penetrate deflector shields. And in fact, they are so well designed to do that, if you know your oppoent's shield frequency, and adapt your torpedoes' shields to a counter frequency, they will pass through the shields as if they aren't there.

 

[Lindley]

I suppose that makes as much sense as nonsensical technobabble ever does, so sure.

You should stop using the word "nudge" to describe the effect on the bullets, though. You could say the navigational deflector "sweeps them aside with the iron fist of God". "Nudge" just gives the wrong impression about the amount of force required.

 

[Bungoman]

Naaa, not much interest in discussing something which is much ado about nothing. Looks like I made my mark here, people are already directly stealing my quotes. Vorlon FTW!

How about I give you an infraction, just so you can see up close and personal how things work here?

Will it put points on my license?

Your license to post here, yes. Now if you actually want to discuss this, we can conduct that through the PM function. Otherwise, please stick with the topic at hand.

 

[Neroon]

Whoever you are, you now have an infraction. Do not post in this thread again.

 

[Davros]

Actually, a better match would be a B5 EarthForce Hyperion. I don't see a Star Destroyer having much trouble with the Galactica.

I just felt they were both just big fighter carriers so it would be a more appropriate match.

 

[paudemge]

That depends entirely on what yo consider "extremely powerful". I think you're way overestimating what it takes to get an object to be moved aside.

Okay, I can do some math. It's not my favorite pasttime, but I've kind of gotten myself curious about this anyway.

There's a 1 gram object moving at C/10 meters per second directly towards the center of a starship. We'll use the ship's frame of reference here so that we can consider it stationary.

Let's say the object needs to be moved x distance to the side to avoid a collision, and it is first acted on at distance y. x and y are in meters.

For simplicity, let's say the force applied by the deflector is directed in the desired direction of movement (to the side). There may be some benefit to directing the force slightly away from the ship to slow down the object, but that complicates the equation and I suspect won't change the result much.

Since the force is entirely to the side, the deflector has only 10*y/C seconds to move the object to the side before impact. Assuming the force applied is constant, velocity to the side will increase linearly from zero; and we require that the integral of the velocity from times 0 to 10*y/c is equal to x. As this is a triangle, this gives us that x = 5*y*v/C if v is the final velocity at impact (or not) time. We can rearrange this to be v = x*C/(5y).

So we can take the derivative of this velocity to find the necessary acceleration: v/t = a = (x*C/(5y))/(10*y/C) = x*C*C/(50*y*y). We can sanity-check that the units here are m/s^2, which indeed they are.

Now that we have the acceleration we can find the force. Newtons have the units kg*m/s^2, so the force required to deflect the object would be F = x*C*C/(50000*y*y) Newtons.

To give a few examples, if the effect of the navigational deflector extended 5000 meters from the ship and the size of the ship was 1000 meters, then we would have F = 71,900,414.3 Newtons. 72 Meganewtons for a 1-gram bullet. If it's 2 grams, that doubles. That's a lot of force. Maybe not outside the realm of possibility, but nothing to sneeze at either. If the nav deflector can do that, I don't dare speculate on the tractor beam's capabilities!

Also, the deflector dish is pointed ahead of the ship. Together with the fact that the fastest (relative) impacts would be approaching from the front during normal operations, it's a safe bet that the deflector envelope isn't spherical. That could render the ship more vulnerable from particular directions if the deflector field doesn't extend as far that way.

To give a few examples, if the effect of the navigational deflector extended 5000 meters from the ship and the size of the ship was 1000 meters, then we would have F = 71,900,414.3 Newtons. 72 Meganewtons for a 1-gram bullet. If it's 2 grams, that doubles. That's a lot of force. Maybe not outside the realm of possibility, but nothing to sneeze at either. If the nav deflector can do that, I don't dare speculate on the tractor beam's capabilities!
.

I always assumed that the navigational deflector extended at least several thousand kilometers in front of the ship, possible 1000 times farther out than your example. I also imagine that the navigational deflector is the same general tech as the tractor beam.

I'm not very good at math, but it seems like at 5000meters the deflector would only have to deflect the bullet less than 2 degrees for it to miss. At 1000 kilometers less than a 1/50 of a degree.

Even if we assume the warp drive was not able to function, i still think the Big-E would win based on the vast range advantage she has. The range of the weapons on the Enterprise easily exceed 75,000 kilometers. The enterprise should be able to destroy all of the vipers with proximity settings well before they come within the vipers effective range. Same goes for any weapons launched by Galactica herself.

 

[Lindley]

True, as I said, extending the field of influence of the deflector extremely far in front of the ship would do it. However, odds are you've got an extremely asymmetrical deflector field in that case; and it would make sense to have one, since most of the debris danger would come in the direction of travel. The field *might* be reversible for Full Reverse, but I doubt very much it can be equally effective from all directions.

 

[paudemge]

I think the navigation deflector is seperate and apart from the screens or shields that are used to protect the ships hull from mostly enemy attack. I think the navigation deflector is very narrow and ties in directly to the sensors to sweep the area in front of the ship of any particles. Anything to large would to be swept would activate the screens/shields and alert the crew.

 

[Lindley]

Which brings us once again back to the point that a sufficiently accelerated bullet coming in on the right trajectory could impact the shields with substantial amounts of kinetic energy, possibly even overloading them.

Just once I'd like Trek to either acknowledge KE weapons as a threat, or tell us why they aren't.....

 

[paudemge]

Which brings us once again back to the point that a sufficiently accelerated bullet coming in on the right trajectory could impact the shields with substantial amounts of kinetic energy, possibly even overloading them.

Just once I'd like Trek to either acknowledge KE weapons as a threat, or tell us why they aren't.....

I certainly believe that KE weapons could be a threat, but I think that they can be defeated pretty easily by a combination of phaser/photon torpedo fire, deflectors/tractors and evasive action before they impacted the ship.

I'm going mostly by TOS Trek when battles where at great distances, KE weapons might be more usefull in TNG era where all there battles would be considered at point blank range for TOS.


KE weapons are one my favorite type of weapons, rail guns or guass guns are in our future, to see how good they can be just look at this video, this is just using lumber at relatively slow speeds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pot7UI5SLb8

This one is a little more high tech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y54aLcC3G74

KE weapons have many advantages over traditional weapons mostly no explosives. Of course directed energy weapons like phasers have the same advantages plus more. But the question is can directed energy weapons deliver more energy on target than a rail gun, I would probably say no, but rail guns would be useless against targets that can accelerate and maneuver the way trek can

 

[Turbo]

I think in the end it all comes down to whether or not you let the Enterprise have its warp drive available.

Eh, not really. She's still got a number of other options, starting with the photon torpedoes. Even if we let Galactica's railguns and/or Vipers drain the shields, Enterprise's torpedoes (and phasers) will cut Galactica to ribbons long before that happens. Alternatively, they simply dispense with the shields and beam torpedoes into Galactica's hangars and magazines. As an alternative to the alternative, they use shuttles to drop torpedoes into Galactica's hangar bay.

Even if you take away the torpedoes AND the warp drive, the phasers should still be sufficient to demolish Galactica before the shields are drained completely. This would be a much harder battle, though, and Enterprise might take heavy damage or even be destroyed. But Galactica herself would be so badly damaged that she'd probably have to be scuttled.

Of course, if the railguns and Vipers don't drain the shields, the only other things Enterprise needs are phasers and time.

The only real way Galactica could win would be to come across a crippled Enterprise, without phasers, torpedoes, shields, or transporters. Galactica is simply outclassed.

Which brings us once again back to the point that a sufficiently accelerated bullet coming in on the right trajectory could impact the shields with substantial amounts of kinetic energy, possibly even overloading them.

Just once I'd like Trek to either acknowledge KE weapons as a threat, or tell us why they aren't.....

There's nothing saying that KE weapons couldn't be a substantial threat...if the Trek ships didn't have these fancy impulse engines to take evasive action.

 

[Lindley]

Impulse engines which could be knocked out by a drone Raptor jumping into the reaction chamber?