Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

[cooleddie74]

I never saw TNG as a retcon. It was set 100 years after TOS and 78 after the then-most recent TOS Movie. It was a natural evolution of Federation and Starfleet technology over the previous century. Retconning would be, say, TNG showing Kirk's Enterprise but having it look only superficially the way it did in TOS and then doubling down on it in later episodes and series.

 

[Longinus]

I never saw TNG as a retcon. It was set 100 years after TOS and 78 after the then-most recent TOS Movie. It was a natural evolution of Federation and Starfleet technology over the previous century. Retconning would be, say, TNG showing Kirk's Enterprise but having it look only superficially the way it did in TOS and then doubling down on it in later episodes and series.

Yeah. To my mind of all the Trek shows TNG and TOS fit together the best.

 

[Hythlodeus]

I never saw TNG as a retcon. It was set 100 years after TOS and 78 after the then-most recent TOS Movie. It was a natural evolution of Federation and Starfleet technology over the previous century. Retconning would be, say, TNG showing Kirk's Enterprise but having it look only superficially the way it did in TOS and then doubling down on it in later episodes and series.

Showing a species from TOs but having it look significantly differnt that it did and then doubling down on it in later episodes and series is totally fine of course.

 

[Racefuel]

Which species are we talking about?

 

[Dukhat]

Showing a species from TOs but having it look significantly differnt that it did and then doubling down on it in later episodes and series is totally fine of course.

Which species are we talking about?

I think he's referring to the Klingons in DSC. Which has nothing to do with TNG. Because in TNG, Worf and other Klingons looked exactly like how they looked in the TOS films, right down to their armor.

 

[Racefuel]

I couldn't tell if he was getting upset about the way the Klingons look in TNG yet TMP introduced that visual change or if it was a more obscure alien we didn't really see much of until Enterprise (IE the Andorians)

 

[cooleddie74]

And I'd be perfectly fine with the DSC Klingons looking like they do had there been a mention of the Augment Virus and attempts to correct its effects. It's all about context and not trampling all over (recent) in-universe explanations. Make T'Kuvma look like a California Raisin with lockjaw but at least acknowledge ENT and TOS Klingon appearances so that way you avoid laying a lot of completely unnecessary land mines that will detonate and all because you couldn't be bothered.

 

[fireproof78]

I can watch the original Star Trek side-by-side with Space:1999 with no issue. Heck, I could probably form a continuity between the two (I'll toss Hell on Wheels in with it for good measure), it doesn't mean they go together.

They are different entities, made at different times by completely different people. They might as well be completely separate shows.

I think they work together. Mileage and all that jazz. It isn't like 1999 or Hell on Wheels or whatever other show.

Though, I think I can make a strong argument for Fallout, and Trek

And I'd be perfectly fine with the DSC Klingons looking like they do had there been a mention of the Augment Virus and attempts to correct its effects. It's all about context and not trampling all over (recent) in-universe explanations. Make T'Kuvma look like a California Raisin with lockjaw but at least acknowledge ENT and TOS Klingon appearances so that way you avoid laying a lot of completely unnecessary land mines for the fans to stumble across and regret.

I don't think I needed such an explanation. I think it is only a land mind because fans make it so.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Awesome show. I only have six episodes left to watch.

Ah, you're just now watching it for the first time? Nice! Bon appetit!

 

[Noname Given]

Really? What did it retcon, exactly?

Off the top of my head:

- Earth was now Utopian and everyone just worked to "better themselves".

- That the Federation didn't use money. (And yes,, I can site MANY TOS references to Federation money use (IE 'Credits'))

- That the Prime Directive applied to ALL non-Federation planets/societies (Not just ones that had yet to develop space travel or had no knowledge of life on other worlds).

- Warp Speed was VASTLY slowed (even though they oft tried to claim TNG ships were way faster) the TOS 1701 traveled 990.7 light years in under two days (with a short burst of speed to Warp 14) - see TOS S3 - "That Which Survives"

- Warp speed had an upper limit of 10 (Again a number of TOS references to Warp Speeds above 10 - see above as well as TOS S2 - "By Any Other Name" and TAS - "The Counter Clock Incident" <--- And yeas TAS was "recannonized".)

 

[Hythlodeus]

I couldn't tell if he was getting upset about the way the Klingons look in TNG yet TMP introduced that visual change or if it was a more obscure alien we didn't really see much of until Enterprise (IE the Andorians)

I'm not getting upset. I like the everchanging look of Klingons. I just find it hypocritical to write 10 pagesof rant after rant because some minor detail of the Enterprise looks slightly different, going so far as talking about retcons and different universes but to be totally fine with the Klingons at the same time.

As far as I'm concerned, I treat the new look of the Enterprise as a recast. She was one of the characters after all. And no one loses their mind if a character gets recast for reasons.

 

[BillJ]

Ah, you're just now watching it for the first time? Nice! Bon appetit!

I actually only watched the first episode right before Discovery season two, to see what kind of actor Anson Mount was. It was love at first sight. I think his skills were utilized far better on Hell on Wheels than they were on Discovery. He came across as pretty vanilla on the latter.

 

[Dukhat]

Off the top of my head:

- Earth was now Utopian and everyone just worked to "better themselves".

- That the Federation didn't use money. (And yes,, I can site MANY TOS references to Federation money use (IE 'Credits'))

- That the Prime Directive applied to ALL non-Federation planets/societies (Not just ones that had yet to develop space travel or had no knowledge of life on other worlds).

None of that is a 'retcon.' A retcon is a change made that invalidates what came before it. Nothing in TOS changed or became invalidated because 80 years later Earth was utopian, didn't use money, and changed their policies about the PD.

- Warp Speed was VASTLY slowed (even though they oft tried to claim TNG ships were way faster) the TOS 1701 traveled 990.7 light years in under two days (with a short burst of speed to Warp 14) - see TOS S3 - "That Which Survives"

- Warp speed had an upper limit of 10 (Again a number of TOS references to Warp Speeds above 10 - see above as well as TOS S2 - "By Any Other Name" and TAS - "The Counter Clock Incident" <--- And yeas TAS was "recannonized".)

Huh? Changing the warp scale 80 years later does not invalidate TOS's warp scale. Again, that's not a retcon.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I actually only watched the first episode right before Discovery season two, to see what kind of actor Anson Mount was. It was love at first sight. I think his skills were utilized far better on Hell on Wheels than they were on Discovery. He came across as pretty vanilla on the latter.

Yeah...when I heard he was cast in Disco, I went into the forum basically just to tell people "Don't watch Inhumans, watch Hell on Wheels!"

Colm Meaney was also awesome.

 

[Racefuel]

Off the top of my head:

- Earth was now Utopian and everyone just worked to "better themselves".

- That the Federation didn't use money. (And yes,, I can site MANY TOS references to Federation money use (IE 'Credits'))

- That the Prime Directive applied to ALL non-Federation planets/societies (Not just ones that had yet to develop space travel or had no knowledge of life on other worlds).

- Warp Speed was VASTLY slowed (even though they oft tried to claim TNG ships were way faster) the TOS 1701 traveled 990.7 light years in under two days (with a short burst of speed to Warp 14) - see TOS S3 - "That Which Survives"

- Warp speed had an upper limit of 10 (Again a number of TOS references to Warp Speeds above 10 - see above as well as TOS S2 - "By Any Other Name" and TAS - "The Counter Clock Incident" <--- And yeas TAS was "recannonized".)

The warp speed rescaling happened much earlier. In TMP the crew seemed very pleased to be able to successfully hit and maintain Warp 7.

 

[Gonzo]

Yeah...when I heard he was cast in Disco, I went into the forum basically just to tell people "Don't watch Inhumans, watch Hell on Wheels!"

Colm Meaney was also awesome.

I thought Inhumans was alright, the issue wasn't the acting it was the overall story, it just didn't really interest at all.

When it was cancelled I was not surprised at all.

 

[Longinus]

Off the top of my head:

- Earth was now Utopian and everyone just worked to "better themselves".

- That the Federation didn't use money. (And yes,, I can site MANY TOS references to Federation money use (IE 'Credits'))

- That the Prime Directive applied to ALL non-Federation planets/societies (Not just ones that had yet to develop space travel or had no knowledge of life on other worlds).

- Warp Speed was VASTLY slowed (even though they oft tried to claim TNG ships were way faster) the TOS 1701 traveled 990.7 light years in under two days (with a short burst of speed to Warp 14) - see TOS S3 - "That Which Survives"

- Warp speed had an upper limit of 10 (Again a number of TOS references to Warp Speeds above 10 - see above as well as TOS S2 - "By Any Other Name" and TAS - "The Counter Clock Incident" <--- And yeas TAS was "recannonized".)

All apart the reference to "That Which Survives" (which was anomaly already in TOS and insignificant as it is just a throwaway line) these are plausible results of things changing over the time of hundred years. This makes it more believable not less. Everything being frozen in time for a century would be way weirder. Yes, the Federation of TOS is different than the one in TNG, but that is a plausible development.

 

[Racefuel]

Well the Federation in the TOS movies (2270-2300) was very different, especially Starfleet. Seemingly due to the continual conflicts with the Klingons in that time..Starfleet was very much operating, for the majority of the time, as a military force that had a secondary scientific and exploration role.

It would appear that for the most part after the formal Klingon alliance was signed after the loss of the Enterprise-C and the brief but bloody Cardassian war..that Starfleet was able to reshift back to being a exploration and scientific force..only for that to shift back to the military side with the Dominion War...(as Picard laments in Insurrection.."Does anyone else remember when we used to be explorers?" )

 

[fireproof78]

Honestly, I think that Star Trek's societal shifts make sense even in ten years from DSC to TOS proper and on to TMP.

 

[cooleddie74]

The first great shift in Starfleet's identity must have been during ENT and then the Earth-Romulan War. It begins as an exploratory and scientific service and within five years of the launch of the NX-01 becomes a wartime military in an interstellar alliance fighting an unseen enemy.