Starship design history in light of Discovery

[Gonzo]

I like the Shenzhou except for her nacelles. Even the bridge being located underneath the saucer - as weird as it is - doesn't bother me as you sort of conjecture that at some point between 2161 and 2256 at least one Starfleet engineer would have wondered if locating the bridge module underneath the saucer would have made it less vulnerable to attack or impact by spatial debris. So that design became almost a one-off for the Walker-class starship and was then abandoned, returning to the topside bridge location choice that had been common ever since the days of the United Earth Starfleet.

Yeah the nacelles really dont work either with what we know came before and will come after.

The improved protection angle doesnt really work either, there is no up or down in space so having the bridge on the top or bottom of the saucer makes no real difference.

In every Scifi space battle it just so happens that everyone is correctly aligned with each other.

Fancy that.

I cant think of a single starship in Star Trek that ever tried the same approach, moving the bridge deeper inside the saucer or even to the edge could have benefits in certain circumstances but moving it underneath wont.

I can accept that Starfleet tried it in the past but I dont see the value of a ship that is designed that way being in Discovery, especially as it is a throwaway ship that doesnt even survive the pilot episodes.

It just feels like pointless fluff.

Bonus points given to the Vengeance though for having a bridge on the edge of the cutout in the saucer allowing view both above and below, that does potentially offer benefits in some ways.

 

[Ronald Held]

Why was there no coherent ship design?

 

[fireproof78]

I like more variety in ship design.

 

[137th Gebirg]

In some of the Eaglemoss articles for the ships, it was said that several of them were considered experimental warp dynamic test beds. It’s entirely possible that the Battle of the Binary Stars was like Wolf 359 in many respects. It started and escalated way too fast and Starfleet had to quickly field a hodgepodge of ships, some not ready for prime-time, in order to stand up to the Klingons. And, like at Wolf 359, they lost dismally.

 

[Dukhat]

I like more variety in ship design.

So do I. I'm not a big fan of taking one design and kitbashing its parts into different configurations. But I am a fan of consistency. As in that ships can have variety but still have a common lineage.

 

[Tuskin38]

In some of the Eaglemoss articles for the ships, it was said that several of them were considered experimental warp dynamic test beds.

That was Eaves’ personal head canon, not something he got from the writers.

 

[fireproof78]

So do I. I'm not a big fan of taking one design and kitbashing its parts into different configurations. But I am a fan of consistency. As in that ships can have variety but still have a common lineage.

I guess I am way too simplistic of a guy because nacelles and saucers is pretty much my design lineage. I don't expect them to be all exactly the same, or even slightly so. I would expect a starfaring Federation with several members to have a variety in starship designs, to see them experiment with different designs, to try a variety of configurations before determining what functions the best rather than just a one size fits all concept.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I guess I am way too simplistic of a guy because nacelles and saucers is pretty much my design lineage. I don't expect them to be all exactly the same, or even slightly so. I would expect a starfaring Federation with several members to have a variety in starship designs, to see them experiment with different designs, to try a variety of configurations before determining what functions the best rather than just a one size fits all concept.

The Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites had been building Starships for hundred of years, but in-universe it feel like humans are the only ones who had any input into federation ship design. If it's one thing that Enterprise did right it's the designs of the Andorian warship and Vulcan Combat Cruisers. I'd love a 24th century Federtion take on those designs.

It seems like there are still multi-species alliances in the far future Discovery has gone to. I'm hoping that they completely ignore past federation design lineage and go for some new, radical and alien concepts for the starships.

 

[drt]

The Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites had been building Starships for hundred of years, but in-universe it feel like humans are the only ones who had any input into federation ship design. If it's one thing that Enterprise did right it's the designs of the Andorian warship and Vulcan Combat Cruisers. I'd love a 24th century Federtion take on those designs.

I suppose the more varied early/mid 23rd century Discovery ships could be reflecting a hodgepodge of Federation member ship ideas in the process of gradually averaging out to the late 23rd/early 24th's more uniform designs.

 

[Tuskin38]

Um, they don't have to look identical. I'm talking about the overall shape.

Not that either. There's no resemblance.

 

[Dukhat]

Not that either. There's no resemblance.

To my eyes, they look like nacelles that a late 24th century Starfleet ship would have. Feel free to disagree with me until the cows come home; you’re not going to change my opinion.

 

[fireproof78]

The art of discussion is quite lost, it seems.

Discussion is not some Dukhat-esque (not a reference to the above poster but the character) mission to prove that your "enemy" is "wrong to oppose you in the first place." Discussion is a sharing of points of view and ideas to support dialog and interaction.

YMMV. But, I think it would be better served to stop trying to "change each other's minds."

 

[Dukhat]

The art of discussion is quite lost, it seems.

Discussion is not some Dukhat-esque (not a reference to the above poster but the character) mission to prove that your "enemy" is "wrong to oppose you in the first place." Discussion is a sharing of points of view and ideas to support dialog and interaction.

YMMV. But, I think it would be better served to stop trying to "change each other's minds."

My username is a reference to the Minbari leader from Babylon 5, not Gul Dukat from DS9.

And as I’ve said on multiple occasions, my opinions are my own, and I’m not out to change anyone else’s. But I’m not some idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I base my opinions on visual evidence. Yes, the visual evidence isn’t always 100% conclusive and there’s always wiggle room for explanations since this is just a fictional show not based in any sort of reality. But that being said, I tend to use Occam’s Razor when I speculate/discuss/etc. this fictional show.

 

[fireproof78]

My username is a reference to the Minbari leader from Babylon 5, not Gul Dukat from DS9.

My bad.

And as I’ve said on multiple occasions, my opinions are my own, and I’m not out to change anyone else’s. But I’m not some idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I base my opinions on visual evidence. Yes, the visual evidence isn’t always 100% conclusive and there’s always wiggle room for explanations since this is just a fictional show not based in any sort of reality. But that being said, I tend to use Occam’s Razor when I speculate/discuss/etc. this fictional show.

Is someone accusing you of being an idiot? This is very confusing...

 

[137th Gebirg]

That was Eaves’ personal head canon, not something he got from the writers.

True, but in the absence of contradicting on-screen evidence, there's no reason it can't be as he says, considering he built those designs to fulfill certain purposes.

 

[Dukhat]

My bad.

Is someone accusing you of being an idiot? This is very confusing...

No, you did not accuse me of being an idiot.

 

[Tuskin38]

To my eyes, they look like nacelles that a late 24th century Starfleet ship would have. Feel free to disagree with me until the cows come home; you’re not going to change my opinion.

But they don't have any bussard collectors, or any other details you would see in that Era.

They don't look like they belong on a starfleet ship of any era to be honest.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I think the Shenzhou has bussards (even if they shouldn't be called that in 23-C design), but they just appear shrouded to me, much like the Abramsverse Vengeance nacelle design.

 

[Timo]

What Eaves did for the pilot battle seems to me the best possible outcome in a limiting environment. The very idea, in-universe, would be to have diversity, so that the Feds would appear unprepared and the Klingons would appear alien. And diversity would mean both ships of different fictional ages, and ships of different fictional missions. There Eaves does fine: some of the ships have the ENT saucer edge angle to suggest age, some have the TOS or Kelvin angle; some have bulk and others have grace.

It's just too bad that Eaves was explicitly forbidden from completing that mission. That is, he was forbidden from doing "period nacelles", having to stick to the boxes. So we sorta have to imagine Starfleet went on a re-engining spree for its old and new ships alike, in the early 2250s - which is the exact opposite of showing an unprepared Starfleet!

It really is a relief that the Shenzhou has different nacelles, then. Although it would have been fun to have Kelvin style cigars or even ENT cylinders there, this, too, was apparently explicitly forbidden. So what we get really is just about the best take possible, distinct enough from the 2250s boxes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Boris Skrbic]

DiscoVision aside, I favor a split between experimental, rarely seen designs developed and deployed closer to Earth (think TBOBW one-offs for a later example) and older, tried-and-true configurations “out there”.