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Starship design history in light of Discovery

Ar-Pharazon said:
Worf in Parallels wasn't time-travelling. They established those were different realities.
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Quite right. More my point was the quantum signature, which is Star Trek's answer to everything time travel related ;)
Mytran said:
True, but they would have to know to do that first. Most time travel escapades seen in Trek seem to be of the "flying by the seat of their pants" type with little time (or awareness) for the need of such preciseness
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Almost all time travel stories are like that. How in the world did Kirk and Co. go back in time to an exact point when humpbacks were still alive? Etc. etc.
 
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A lot of Star Trek time travel examples are predestination paradoxes. Not all though. Or the event was fixed.

Whuch would account for the lack of consequences.
 
There's one standout example of the timeline changing and the main characters recognizing that they're now living in an alternate timeline but not caring and going on with their lives: "Accession(DS9)," wherein the return of Akorem Laan to his own era in the 22nd century results in one of his famous Bajoran poems that he never finished in the original history now having been finished, leading to Kira noticing the changes when she reads about Akorem's life and career after he resumes his life in his own time.
 
cooleddie74 said:
There's one standout example of the timeline changing and the main characters recognizing that they're now living in an alternate timeline but not caring and going on with their lives: "Accession(DS9)," wherein the return of Akorem Laan to his own era in the 22nd century results in one of his famous Bajoran poems that he never finished in the original history now having been finished, leading to Kira noticing the changes when she reads about Akorem's life and career after he resumes his life in his own time.
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Of course, Kira and Sisko both point out that that's completely absurd, and the Prophets must've done some major historical remodeling for the poems (and the second half of a man's life!) to have had absolutely no effect on the present day (or, alternatively, to import an uncountable number of hardcopy books and data files in from the alternate timeline he returned to silently, with no one noticing until the next time they looked him up). I imagine there must've been a lot of existential questions and last-Thursdayism once people realized that, especially people who'd worked with Akorem's poems. Did scholars and schoolchildren suddenly find their essays and analyses were now completely different from what they remembered writing and reflected his completed works? Even if they didn't, there must've been scribes, typesetters, librarians who now had books that were entirely different than the ones they'd made or shelved. And if the Prophets can do all that, what else might they do? How can anyone trust in reality again?

Imagine a version of the scene in Generations where Data is listing every effect of the star exploding, but it's every effect of Akorem Laan's body of work doubling in size; "Eight thousand, six hundred, twenty two failing grades in literature classes where papers had been assigned on Akorem's work and students turned in papers based on his expanded output to teachers who were only aware of his truncated oeuvre. Sixty-eight libraries had to cut open a shelf because their hardcopy collections of Akorem's books increased in size and the books were now squeezed in too tightly to remove. Three databases operating near maximum storage capacity crashed with the larger file size overloaded them. Six poetry readings ran overtime because they'd scheduled for the unfinished version of 'The Call of the Prophets...'"
 
Tuskin38 said:
Pierre Drolet posted some renders of the original USS Shenzhou model he made for Discovery, before CBS changed their CGI team. This post is 2 years old, but I've never seen it before.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/OrZ2b

It's after the Orville, there's also a couple renders of the Klingon Raider and Cleave ship
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Those are friggin' amazing!

The Shenzhou is my favourite starship in DIS, period. And this brighter paint scheme (white with red highlights) works so, so, so much better for the TOS timeframe.

Hell, much as I wished ST09 would have been a movie about the USS Kelvin, I really wish "Star Trek Discovery" would have had the Shenzhou as the lead ship!:guffaw:
 
pierre-drolet-copernicus-pierre-drolet.jpg

https://cdna.artstation.com/p/asset...rolet-copernicus-pierre-drolet.jpg?1522265655
(also from https://www.artstation.com/artwork/OrZ2b)

Also, I have to say, I find his concept for the "Discovery" (aka a TOS-era ship inspired by the Ken Adam design) much, much, much better than the design actually used on the show!

This one would have worked really well with the timeframe, and honestly also looks just a tad little bit cooler.
 
I noticed Pierre's model of the Shenzhou is missing the pop-up phaser cannons, or at least obvious doors for them. Must have been a later addition.
 
Yep. The one in the above image is so much better than the final version of Discovery that we got. I'm not a fan of the "ball deflector" or the Bussard collectors being covered by hull plating but other than that I like the color and overall it's a lot closer to the TOS-era aesthetic.
 
It's funny. I like the design of the Discovery (as well as most of the other DSC Starfleet ships). However, I what I don't like is the time period they are set in. To me these ship designs would have worked far better post-TUC/pre-Enterprise-C destruction rather than pre-TOS.
 
Yep. These do not fit well into the TOS era at all. Some are much better than others but they are far closer to TOS Movie Era in appearance and internal design. If I saw the Enterprise-B or -C alongside one of the DSC Era starships I'd barely flinch. The TOS Enterprise? Not so much.
 
Rahul said:
pierre-drolet-copernicus-pierre-drolet.jpg

https://cdna.artstation.com/p/asset...rolet-copernicus-pierre-drolet.jpg?1522265655
(also from https://www.artstation.com/artwork/OrZ2b)

Also, I have to say, I find his concept for the "Discovery" (aka a TOS-era ship inspired by the Ken Adam design) much, much, much better than the design actually used on the show!

This one would have worked really well with the timeframe, and honestly also looks just a tad little bit cooler.
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That looks great and fits with the whole design lineage as well but it doesnt really scream hero ship to me.

That is why I have an issue with the Shenzou it just doesnt fit very well with the rest of the fleet that we saw, it sticks out like a sore thumb almost as much as the Klingon ships, if the upside down design was a successful platform then the newer ships should be the same but its never used again, its probably something that was carried over from the original plan for the show.

I just chalk the Shenzou being added to give Georgiou a hero ship of her own, bit of a waste when it wasnt going to last beyond the pilot episodes though, would have been better to have given her one of the other ships we saw in the battle, the ship you posted would have been ideal and looks convincing as a precursor to the Constitution class.

I am fine with the Discovery we actually got as it was designed for the shroom drive in particular (would have worked perfectly as a S31 ship if Lorca had been PU and a member of the organisation), some believe that an existing ship design was modified but I rather doubt it as any existing design would require more modification than just having a saucer that could rotate.

Apart from the Shenzou I think the Starfleet ships we saw in the battle fit nicely into what we know of ship design before and after the ToS era, with the Crossfield design being a one off for a very particular purpose.
 
Dukhat said:
It's funny. I like the design of the Discovery (as well as most of the other DSC Starfleet ships). However, I what I don't like is the time period they are set in. To me these ship designs would have worked far better post-TUC/pre-Enterprise-C destruction rather than pre-TOS.
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For all we know that is what they were originally created for before all the upheaval behind the scenes, they would have worked well in show set in multiple era's leading up to the Enterprise B and perhaps as far as the C.

The Shenzou would have worked better then as well.
 
I like the Shenzhou except for her nacelles. Even the bridge being located underneath the saucer - as weird as it is - doesn't bother me as you sort of conjecture that at some point between 2161 and 2256 at least one Starfleet engineer would have wondered if locating the bridge module underneath the saucer would have made it less vulnerable to attack or impact by spatial debris. So that design became almost a one-off for the Walker-class starship and was then abandoned, returning to the topside bridge location choice that had been common ever since the days of the United Earth Starfleet.
 
Gonzo said:
For all we know that is what they were originally created for before all the upheaval behind the scenes, they would have worked well in show set in multiple era's leading up to the Enterprise B and perhaps as far as the C.
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There does seem to be a bit of a hodgepodge of designs. Some ships look like descendants of the NX-01, some ships look like they'd fit in just fine in FC, and some just don't seem to conform to any design aesthetic. But what's funny is that none of them look like the TOS Enterprise, the ship that should have been the template for Starfleet vessels of the time. Not even their version of the Enterprise!

cooleddie74 said:
I like the Shenzhou except for her nacelles. Even the bridge being located underneath the saucer - as weird as it is - doesn't bother me as you sort of conjecture that at some point between 2161 and 2256 at least one Starfleet engineer would have wondered if locating the bridge module underneath the saucer would have made it less vulnerable to attack or impact by spatial debris. So that design became almost a one-off for the Walker-class starship and was then abandoned, returning to the topside bridge location choice that had been common ever since the days of the United Earth Starfleet.
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Yeah, I've always liked the Shenzhou, but those nacelles looks like they came straight off a ship built post-NEM, like some of those godawful STO designs.
 
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