There must be struggle and an unhappy gay male because that's how it would be in real life for a person in that situation. Do you want something real that serves a purpose or a publicity stunt? For most of the adult population there is an unease of homosexuals and that's even higher in the military. For most of use we start off homophobic and then our misconceptions are defeated when we grow older and realize they're just like us and even there's still probably going to be a hind of unease. Should it be like that? No, but that's the way it is.
'Stargate' Brings Lesbians Back To Prime Time
- Thread starter Snick27
- Start date
There must be struggle and an unhappy gay male because that's how it would be in real life for a person in that situation. Do you want something real that serves a purpose or a publicity stunt? For most of the adult population there is an unease of homosexuals and that's even higher in the military. For most of use we start off homophobic and then our misconceptions are defeated when we grow older and realize they're just like us and even there's still probably going to be a hind of unease. Should it be like that? No, but that's the way it is.
^If you make the character all about the fact that he's gay, viewers who might not care either way might just start to turn against him. The "boo hoo hoo I'm gay" storyline has been done to absolute death and will bore viewers.
On the other hand, presenting a gay man or woman as just any other person makes them seem like just an ordinary person and their sexuality is not their defining characteristic.
On the other hand, presenting a gay man or woman as just any other person makes them seem like just an ordinary person and their sexuality is not their defining characteristic.
Which is how it should be anyway.
Unless this is a "coming out of the Stargate" story, I don't care if the character is gay or not.
Glad to hear. I hope Star Trek does a similar thing if and when it comes back as a TV programme. Just a shame that it's going to be a pair of "lip stick" lesbians and not, you know, real Lesbians or better yet, a pair of homosexual men!
Oh, and a slight anicdotal note here, I know more women than men who like the Stargate franchise but I think that may have something to do with the actors involved.
Captain Jack Harkness is an "over-the-top" type of character. Even though the gay aspect of his character is rather, shall we say, evident, it's not IN YOUR FACE GAY GAY GAY! because it's in character for how over-the-top Captain Jack already is.
Aspects of a character must be similarly balanced to be "in character." It doesn't matter if the character is male, female, black, white, Asian, gay, etc. if the purpose of having the character have that aspect is to shove it in the viewer's face, then it's just bad writing.
I'm not exactly the world's biggest homophobe, nor the biggest straight promoter of gay rights, but I don't want to see a show have a token gay character any more than I want to see a show have a token black character. It's bad writing, it's pandering, and it's cheap.
If the guy or gal is gay, then they're gay.
What's next?
Aspects of a character must be similarly balanced to be "in character." It doesn't matter if the character is male, female, black, white, Asian, gay, etc. if the purpose of having the character have that aspect is to shove it in the viewer's face, then it's just bad writing.
I'm not exactly the world's biggest homophobe, nor the biggest straight promoter of gay rights, but I don't want to see a show have a token gay character any more than I want to see a show have a token black character. It's bad writing, it's pandering, and it's cheap.
If the guy or gal is gay, then they're gay.
What's next?
Loud obnoxious nerds whose characters exist for the point of being loud obnoxious nerds?
Military Colonels who exist simply to spew quips and facetious comments at friend and foe alike?
Mysterious ethnic warriors from another world?
Military Colonels who exist simply to spew quips and facetious comments at friend and foe alike?
Mysterious ethnic warriors from another world?
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
Excuse me, but just what the frack is a 'real' lesbian?
I thought that a lesbian was a woman who loves other women. If that's the case, then it dosen't matter what the character looks like, sounds like, or even dresses like so long as the part of her that loves other females is depicted on screen in a good manner. Her wearing of lipstick is between her and her Creator, and no one else.Let's not have the moonbat craziness of people like Allecto and her rants against Joss Wheedon mess up the enjoyment of the character and the show, please.
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Where's the ethnic warrior from another world? And we don't know what the Colonals are like in this show nor what the nerds are like for that matter.
But wasn't that already Ronon?
Good points, and a good explanation why I'm skeptical about Stargate's ability to write a character "type" who is not an annoying cliche.
Excuse me, but just what the frack is a 'real' lesbian?
Let's not have the moonbat craziness of people like Allecto and her rants against Joss Wheedon mess up the enjoyment of the character and the show, please.
Lipstick lesbian is shorthand for "a so-called gay female character who obviously exists to pander to straight male fantasies." I've seen more of that type in sci fi on TV than I've seen of lesbian characters who are actually attempting to depict a gay character for her own sake, and I get the feeling I'm far from alone from being skeptical on that basis. The fact that Stargate dabbles in other sorts of stupid, pandering stereotypes just adds to my skepticism. This ain't BSG (and even there, the lesbians were suspiciously lipsticky - while the gay males' storylines were relegated to webcasts, huh.)
And who the frak is Allecto? Wow, nice ranting there. Hope she hasn't seen Dollhouse!!!
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
Sadly, no it hasn't, and her recent post is about Nina Simone and how her music empowers her to survive a nasty, evil patriarchal society that rapes her daily. Here's where it is, BTW: Pirate Jenny-Nina Simone
Again, I tried to write a response, but she deleted me, because I'm not who she wants to listen to.
Amen!Excuse me, but just what the frack is a 'real' lesbian?
My wife and I just met a young lady who actually seems pretty femme, and while she isn't dolling herself up like a supermodel every minute of the day, she certainly looks like a woman and has several of what I consider to be mainly feminine interests (movies with unicorns and faeries and such). She just broke up not too long ago with a girl that made her kit out (clothes, hair, lack of make-up, etc) as what amounted to a guy, though - because her girlfriend was insecure and thought she would attract other women if she didn't!
People who are complaining about the lesbians on the upcoming series potentially being "hot" are ignoring two things:
1. It is TV, people! Almost everyone is at least better looking than average.
2. Sure, straight men enjoy looking at hot lesbians. But you know what? So do lesbians. Win-win.
That is quite possibly the most laughable, stupid and naive post I've ever seen on Trekbbs. Congratulations.
Oh yes, I forgot, because all gay men are unhappy
No I want something that represents life. Ie. Heterosexual and homosexual people mixing. Some single. Some dating. Some married. etc. There doesn't have to be a 'story' or a 'struggle' with the gay character, just as there doesn't have to be a story or struggle with any heterosexual character's sexuality. It's no different, and shouldn't be treated as such.
I'm not going to dignify that rubbish with a response.
Exactly. As it should be.
It's exactly the same as having a black character on the show. No 'story' or 'struggle' needs to be made up around it. They're just treated exactly the same as everyone else.
Having a gay character really shouldn't be that big of a talking point. Handled in the correct manner, he/she would discuss, express, display their sexuality in the same way as previous heterosexual characters did in the past. From one off (jokey or otherwise) remarks to in your face relationship stuff.
Checkmate
Commodore
So you're basically saying you want to see more gay characters even if there's absolutely no sign that they're gay? Since the only way to do that is to draw attention -- big or small -- to it in the story.
If that's the case, why do you assume every character on television is straight unless otherwise stated? There are plenty of characters who have little to no attention put on their sexuality or dating habits. Pick any number of them and voila! Gay characters on telelvision who aren't insulting whatever weird notion you have about gay people.
Of course, you also have characters who have zero attention drawn to their sexuality who end up being revealed to have been gay all along. Can you say "Dumbledore?" But I'm sure you were probably upset that there weren't any gay characters in the Harry Potter franchise up until then, too. Well, at least any in the actual books as opposed to all of the painfully sad net fiction out there.
Or are you just talking out of your ass about not needing to have attention drawn to them?
No, I was responding to another poster who claimed that if a character was gay, a storyline had to centre around his sexuality and there needed to be some sort of angst or struggle in that character.
Which is complete rubbish.
My point was, if you cared to actually read what I said without jumping to conclusions... was that a gay character doesn't NEED to have a storyline devoted to his sexuality. The idea that that person is gay can crop up every now and then, say in the mess room with his/her colleagues/friends, or something like that, just as other character's sexualities are revealed every now and then (Rodney flirting with a colleague for instance). It doesn't have to be more than that.
I don't get why people are automatically jumping to conclusions that the show is going to be all about homosexual relationships just because a character is gay. Outside of Sam's engagement and two a lesser extent McKay/Keller, has Stargate ever dealt with relationship storylines heavily?
I also don't get the slam against a show that hasn't aired yet by calling the gay character a "lipstick lesbian." So what if they look attractive. It's TV. Everyone looks attractive. Also, I'd like to point to the show The L Word which had an entire cast of characters being gay and they were all good looking. From what I know, no one ever complained or criticized that show for only portraying lipstick lesbians (in fact, the show was highly praised, critically, iirc).
I also don't get the slam against a show that hasn't aired yet by calling the gay character a "lipstick lesbian." So what if they look attractive. It's TV. Everyone looks attractive. Also, I'd like to point to the show The L Word which had an entire cast of characters being gay and they were all good looking. From what I know, no one ever complained or criticized that show for only portraying lipstick lesbians (in fact, the show was highly praised, critically, iirc).
But now she's gloating at Dollhouse's certain cancellation, no doubt due to her skillful wiccan spellcasting.
Personally, I blame Helo and his fugliness.
She and languatron should get together and make babies!Again, I tried to write a response, but she deleted me, because I'm not who she wants to listen to.
Wow, the worst way to handle gay characters is to wait till they're dead to out them. If you're going to be that cowardly, just don't do it at all.
Best way: pick a character who isn't "supposed" to be gay - for instance, the requisite young while male lead - and don't reveal this for a few episodes, but do so in an off the cuff way, in casual conversation about boyfriends/girlfriends that people are bound to have even in work situations. Make sure this character is male so that you can screen out the homophobes in the audience.
Once you've proven that you're brave enough to make a lead male character gay, then you can introduce a lesbian or two. But if you don't have the guts to do that, at the very least don't try to take credit for how "bold" you are in having a gay character.
So why can't we have an attractive male character who's gay? I think we all know the honest answer to that, and the rest are in denial.
And at the risk of being rude, have you seen photos of the SG:U cast? I'd say maybe one of those guys is definitely attractive - Jamil Walker Smith. The others are borderline at best. Sheesh, couldn't they have done better than that? And Stargate used to be so good about hiring the Joe Flanigans and Ben Browders of the world.
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