Starfleet Logistics and Pon Farr

[EEE]

1. How did they get an entire crew in-synch enough to do a 5 year mission on the Intrepid?

2. How did they word the questionaire and/or interviews for the posting to the Intrepid, in regards that 'which we don't even discuss among ourselves?'*

3. Did the Intrepid get sent out on 7 year missions or alternate between 5's & 2's?

4. If they made extensive use of previous pairings, how did they avoid that 'need to return to that one stream?'*

5. Etc?

* Paraphrased because I'm too lazy to throw in the DVD at this very moment. *grin*

 

[Bacl]

The concept of a Vulcan only crew has always struck me as the most racist idea in Trek. Very against what Starfleet and the Federation stood for. What if a human or Trill or another race wanted to work on that ship?

Non-Vulcan's need not apply?

 

[EEE]

The concept of a Vulcan only crew has always struck me as the most racist idea in Trek. ... Non-Vulcan's need not apply?

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. Just not on MY ship! But really, I dunno. Vulcans sometimes had a hard time being around humans... perhaps Intrepid was Starfleet's way to get the Vulcans used to playing with others. So to speak. But what of the logistics of Pon Farr?

 

[TheChronicOne]

The concept of a Vulcan only crew has always struck me as the most racist idea in Trek. Very against what Starfleet and the Federation stood for. What if a human or Trill or another race wanted to work on that ship?

Non-Vulcan's need not apply?

More over, why would the Vulcans man a foreign ship? An all Vulcan crew in the UFP would most likey be manning a Vulcan ship. It could be argued that it was some type of trial run or something....... but still.

But racist?? No, I don't think it's racist at all... there are many factions in the UFP and to think that a section of the fleet could be made up of only one race is quite reasonable.

 

[TheChronicOne]

The concept of a Vulcan only crew has always struck me as the most racist idea in Trek. ... Non-Vulcan's need not apply?

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. Just not on MY ship! But really, I dunno. Vulcans sometimes had a hard time being around humans... perhaps Intrepid was Starfleet's way to get the Vulcans used to playing with others. So to speak. But what of the logistics of Pon Farr?

Excellent points.

As far as the logistics.... It can only be speculated on by us, the fans, because the powers that be allowed for no explanations. There are no canon explanations for this.

As far as speculation goes, however, I'd like to think that the Intrepid was possibly based at Vulcan, and return trips to there were a matter of routine, allowing for the Pon Farr. When the ship would return to base for crew/supplies, R&R would be in effect, Pon Farr taking priority.

 

[Timo]

Indeed, we should remember that there would have been no trouble with Spock had he been able to write down the likely dates on his calendar in advance and request leave at that time. And aboard the Intrepid, he wouldn't have to have been circumspect about the reasons; just a telling cough would do.

It is probably exceedingly rare for other, full Vulcans to be unsure about their pon farr timing. So the Intrepid could well continue to function like any other starship, without a need for special schedules or a complement of fast courier shuttles or anything.

Timo Salonimei

 

[Maurice]

Let's look at it from anther perspective: so far as we ever saw, Spock was the only non-human Starfleet officer/crewman we saw on a starship on TOS. If there are ships full of humans, there may well be ships full of Vulcans, Andorians, and what have you. Think of it this way, as well, half-human Spock aside, Vulcans may prefer the environmental setting hotter and with a lesser oxygen content than humans, which might now make extended missions with mixed crews physically comfortable.

 

[TheChronicOne]

Indeed, we should remember that there would have been no trouble with Spock had he been able to write down the likely dates on his calendar in advance and request leave at that time. And aboard the Intrepid, he wouldn't have to have been circumspect about the reasons; just a telling cough would do.

It is probably exceedingly rare for other, full Vulcans to be unsure about their pon farr timing. So the Intrepid could well continue to function like any other starship, without a need for special schedules or a complement of fast courier shuttles or anything.

Timo Salonimei

That's cool Timo, so I guess you're saying that since Spock was half Terran, his Pon Farr wasn't so easily calculated... This still leaves gaps, as Spock wasn't exactly a youngster on the Enterprise when his Pon Farr started to effect him. (bowl of soup on wall).

You would think, though, that after having been in existance for as long as he was, that Spock would have figured his "human DNA skewed" Ponn Farr cycle out by then.

 

[EEE]

Indeed, we should remember that there would have been no trouble with Spock had he been able to write down the likely dates on his calendar in advance and request leave at that time. And aboard the Intrepid, he wouldn't have to have been circumspect about the reasons; just a telling cough would do.

It is probably exceedingly rare for other, full Vulcans to be unsure about their pon farr timing. So the Intrepid could well continue to function like any other starship, without a need for special schedules or a complement of fast courier shuttles or anything.

Timo Salonimei

Hence my questions above. There would have to be a need for a schedule... now would it be for a roundtrip airfare home (and how would they do that if they're 2.5 calendar years out) or would their *ahem/cough* need to be synchronized so that the Intrepid could come home once every seven years and not have to worry about the *ahem/cough* at all during each of their "5 years missions... boldly going where no round-ear has gone before?"

 

[BillJ]

I don't recall any dialogue stating that the Intrepid was on a five year mission. Hell, don't even have any proof that it was a Federation ship. It could have been a Vulcan cruiser attached to Starfleet for a specific mission, Intrepid merely being the translation of the Vulcan name.

Who knows?

As far as Pon Farr goes... perhaps these are all mated Vulcans and they simply brought the mates along for the ride.

 

[Timo]

Kirk's ship was on a five-year mission, and this in no way stopped him from sending people on leave, or sending away officers and taking aboard new ones. The ship called to Federation port several times per season during the five-year mission, and Spock could have taken his pon farr leave at any such time, had he foreseen the need. The same would go for the Intrepid crew.

You would think, though, that after having been in existance for as long as he was, that Spock would have figured his "human DNA skewed" Ponn Farr cycle out by then.

But the point in "Amok Time" was that Spock didn't have a cycle. The bout described in the episode was his very first. In short, he was a freak, an unpredictable anatomical anomaly - and until that episode, he had hoped that this fact would make him immune to pon farr altogether.

Which sort of raises the question of whether Spock's first pon farr was on the usual seven-year cycle, and the previous ones had simply gone without symptoms - or whether Spock in fact didn't have a seven-year cycle due to being a freak, or at least had fallen out of synch with T'Pring. It didn't seem as if T'Pring would have been in pon farr, after all, and more recent shows and episodes have suggested that female pon farr is also cyclic and visible even to the casual observer.

Memory Alpha speculates that Spock was born in 2232, in which case "Amok Time" might take place around his 36th birthday - in the middle (be it by stardate count or airing/production order count) of a five-year mission that ended in 2270. So it doesn't seem that his first pon farr would fall exactly on a seven-year cycle as counted from his birth. Of course, it would be more natural to count from his childhood bonding with T'Pring, the date of which we do not know (although again Memory Alpha chooses to speculate, making her the same age as Spock).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EEE]

Kirk's ship was on a five-year mission, and this in no way stopped him from sending people on leave, or sending away officers and taking aboard new ones. The ship called to Federation port several times per season during the five-year mission, and Spock could have taken his pon farr leave at any such time, had he foreseen the need. The same would go for the Intrepid crew.

That makes sense until one considers that a ship of exploration would be severly limited by needing to time it's maximum travel distance to Vulcan and/or connecting flights to Vulcan at given times. But excellent points on Spock regarding his out of the ordinary Vulcan version of a menstrual cycle for both sexes. In fact he did state that he thought he would be spared Pon Farr altogether. But a shipload of full Vulcans is another story. We learned that at least Spock would die if he didn't get some (and what male hasn't believed that to be true of humans at some point in their life?). And in spite of the oddity of his cyclic situation, I think full Vulcans would be tempting the same fate. Although they would have Vulcan doctors with better methods of dealing with it than an EMH or helmsman-come-medic. We know Spock would've done his homework beforehand, so if there was a treatment to avoid death, I think he would've mentioned it (in spite of his condition so to speak).

 

[Timo]

To be sure, we have never seen a Vulcan die of failure to find a mate in pon farr. Rather, every time we have witnessed pon farr (on a number of full Vulcan males and females and innocent bystanders of other species by now), it has been resolved nonlethally without involving mate-finding. Perhaps the booklets that Spock had secretly read under his blanket, his ears blushing deep green, were somewhat exaggerating the situation for educational purposes?

Also, it doesn't seem as if getting to Vulcan in a few days would ever be a big problem in the TOS milieu, not when standard Starfleet assets were available. Or at least we'd then have to think that the situation in "Amok Time" was a colossal coincidence, with the ship anomaliously close to Vulcan at just the moment when Spock unpredictably needed to be on Vulcan...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Outpost4]

One seventh of the ship is a padded room...with a lot of blow up dolls, dildos and soup.

 

[EEE]

To be sure, we have never seen a Vulcan die of failure to find a mate in pon farr. Rather, every time we have witnessed pon farr (on a number of full Vulcan males and females and innocent bystanders of other species by now),

I had this really long reply about only being able to base conclusions on TOS due to the time differences in series and potential advances that "we do not even speak of among ourselves," but a logical conclusion dawned on me... what if only the first Pon Farr is fatal? We do know that it is fatal because McCoy said so and Saavik confirmed it by her actions. But it was Spock's first Pon Farr and his other first Pon Farr.

 

[Timo]

Now that's quite clever!

OTOH, doesn't VOY later imply that pon farr becomes more and more severe with age?

Presumably, though, this would only be a factor if the Vulcan (male) in question didn't already have a mate, as something done with the mate (be it active telepathic soothing, the mere telepathic presence of the mate, or physical copulation). And perhaps "more severe" doesn't mean "more fatal", but otherwise more intense.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I think BillJ's reply makes the most sense:

1. The Intrepid wasn't nesessarily on a five-year mission, and

2. The Vulcan who were sheduled for "Pon Farr" brought their mates (possibly as a working part of the crew) so they could "Pon Farr" in space.

or possibly the "Pon Farr" vulcans simply took leave when they needed to.

 

[Basill]

Loving this discussion. Lots of good points.

I've always thought of the 7 year cycle of Pon Farr cycle as being what is set up after the bonding ceremony. The telepathic bonds, and the mental conditioning common to the Vulcan culture would be nuanced together for a more perfect ceremonial end result. For those not bonded however, Pon Farr would still occur, but would it occur on such a perfect cycle and in perfect synch with a partner? Spock had an image of T'Pring in his quarters as a young girl, and it is not hard to suspect the image might have been recorded at the time of their bonding. How old did she look? Sevenish? (clearly under the age of 10) Had he even seen here since then? At any rate, I agree with Timo that the cycle may have been completely out of whack due to Spock's unique circumstances. And it may have been a determining factor or the very reason T'Pring decided against Spock in the Koon-ut-kal-if-fee. If and when T'Pring went through her first cycle it is possible Spock had already left Vulcan and joined Starfleet. This may have been yet another reason Sarek was so upset with Spock. Not only did he deny his place at the Vulcan Science Academy, but he'd left T'Pring in the lurch. An embarrassing situation for the family to be sure.

Though I don't think there is any dialog to back it up, I've always had this vague impression that Spock did indeed have a touch of the blood fever in the past, but was always able to stave off the powerful urges because of his partial human physiology and his mental training. At the very least we know his human half threw off the cycle in some way, as it took so long to manifest. This time however the drives were too strong and he simply couldn't avoid it. The Genesis experience is one key to that. He began the Pon Farr there shortly after he became "manly" not at the apparent age of late thirties. One of the reasons he couldn't avoid it on Genesis was because of the crazy state his body was in, and that he had no mental recourse to help him through the onslaught of hormones, like a young Spock trained in the ways of his culture would have. Luckily Saavik was there. I also assumed T'Pring managed to get through her state (or states) by obvious Stonn like means, which is why she was so cool and collected during the TOS ceremony. She was not in cycle and/or she was gettin' her some.

As far as the Intrepid, I've never assumed they were on a 5 year specific mission. They may have just been a large group of scientist's that needed a ship for a limited or non-specific term and asked Starfleet for a vessel. The Intrepid was at their disposal and granted to them for their needs. An all Vulcan crew would be easier to set environmental standards for, so I don't think there was anything racist or even elitist to it. As to it's "in-cycle" members, there may in fact be some therapy for the Pon Farr, and in contrast to what EEE mentioned, I don't think Spock did his homework as well as he should, because he thought (hoped) he would be spared. Spock could be brilliant, but he was never the perfect Vulcan he aspired to be.

I can just envision a Vulcan doctor on the Intrepid analyzing the symptoms, taking a hypospray and showing it to the patient... and with no words and a raised eyebrow saying, "You know what this is, and we will not speak of this. Now bend over"

 

[maryh]

How about a less complex explanation that MOST Vulcans would be already bonded and if they want to go on a lengthy cruise, they have to bring their spouses or bond mates too. Both would have to be in the Fleet. Perhaps this is why there are so few Vulcans in the Fleet. They are somewhat restricted by their "biology".

 

[EEE]

I think BillJ's reply makes the most sense:

1. The Intrepid wasn't nesessarily on a five-year mission,

Except we've never seen a starfleet starship that wasn't/didn't do 5-year missions, so it falls under being a logical assumption for the purposes of this thread, if nothing else.

2. The Vulcan who were sheduled for "Pon Farr" brought their mates (possibly as a working part of the crew) so they could "Pon Farr" in space.

Back of my brain still "hears" Spock's analogy for why he needs to go home is like the salmon that must return to that one stream from which it spawned.

or possibly the "Pon Farr" vulcans simply took leave when they needed to.

Problem with the leave theory for me is that is that the need to stay within relative travel distance of a fixed point is too limiting for a thinly veiled military exploring service to limit the usefulness of 1/12th of their best ships. "Sorry Admiral, we can't let Intrepid go very far, because of 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink. Say no more! Say no more, squire!'" "Sorry Admiral, Intrepid can't respond to the latest Klingon/Romulan incursion because our remote horn-o-meter reads dangerously high hormone levels in a significant fraction of the crew." "Sorry Admiral, we can't divert her to deliver that vital medicine because the only responses we get from Intrepid is some nonsense about "Slow ride! Take it easy!" accompanied by electric slide guitar music.

Does anybody know for sure that Theodore Sturgeon was really a man? I mean has anyone here actually met him? How do we know with absolute certainty it wasn't a pen name for a frustrated married woman who's husband never made it home from sales trip for their honeymoon?