Starfleet is a Space Navy (military fleet)
- Thread starter Baxten
- Start date
- Status
So then I suppose it was introduced as an experiment on the Galaxy class as mentioned in 'Encounter at Farpoint' and found enough popularity to allow other ships that same privilege, but fell out of practice about ten years later as per TNG movie era.
Which makes me wonder, what the heck was Sisko or his captain thinking when they engaged the Borg with civilians and children on the ship? At least Riker had the decency to separate the Saucer section, but they aren't off the hook either. Picard took the Enterprise into all sorts of confrontations, anomalies, etc, and risked destroying the ship dozens of times.
Which makes me wonder, what the heck was Sisko or his captain thinking when they engaged the Borg with civilians and children on the ship? At least Riker had the decency to separate the Saucer section, but they aren't off the hook either. Picard took the Enterprise into all sorts of confrontations, anomalies, etc, and risked destroying the ship dozens of times.
Speculation.
Perhaps they were thinking that there are billions of civilians and children on Earth, and only dozens (if that) civilians and children on the ship?
Last edited:
I guess... then again, surely they had time to drop them off. We'll never know now...because they're all dead...and the dead don't speak.
And as I said, this doesn't excuse all the times the great Galaxy class brought all these civies into combat situations. They're like human shields.
I'm trying to be equatable in this side bar...
Well, it fell out of practice during the Dominion War for reasons that should be pretty obvious. But I also need to point out that the first ship to actually go out of its way to offload its civilians before a potential combat situation was USS Odyssey itself.
And even the Enterprise-D still deliberately engaged the Borg with its full civilian complement intact in "Best of Both Worlds Part 1." They likewise showed no hesitation to place themselves in the line of fire in "Star Trek Generations."
Exactly the same thing Picard was thinking. "This is our job, so let's go do this."
They use military ranks, and a form of military discipline that can include being court-martialed or confined to the brig or to quarters. They travel about in armed vessels that have service registrations and are the same ships sent to fight conflicts and wars and to "show the flag". We've admittedly seen civilian spouses and children aboard some of the vessels, including the -D, but 1. they're all there voluntarily (or by the volunteering of an authorized parent or guardian), 2. we have civilian contractors on some current American Naval vessels, and 3. it has been made clear that under circumstances that require it, even the smallest children on the ships are subject to the chain of command (multiple episodes of TNG, especially, are coming to mind, like "Rascals" and "Disaster"). Their vessels perform mostly non-combat operations including research, transport, and support operations - but thankfully, that's true of most of our current navies, as well.
The biggest variances between the current American Navy and Starfleet that I see (aside from technology, obviously) are that Starfleet seems to see non-combat operations as a purpose slightly ahead of defense, and that Starfleet personnel seem to serve entirely voluntarily and at will (except for under emergency circumstances such as *during* Red or Yellow Alert, or when all hands were needed for survival as when Voyager was stranded in the Delta Quadrant) and seem to be able to separate from the service or take sabbaticals more or less as they see fit. (It *is* possible, I guess, that this wouldn't apply to their first tour of duty, and that we just haven't seen that because everyone that we've actually *seen* do this on-screen has been beyond that and into an ongoing service period beyond that.) To me, though, these seems less like differences that would make them not a military, and more like an evolution of the current pattern of voluntary service in the American military, and of trying to keep our resources useful and exercised at all times even outside of combat operations.
So my answer would be that, yes, Starfleet is a "navy" or similar military service organization. Next question.
The biggest variances between the current American Navy and Starfleet that I see (aside from technology, obviously) are that Starfleet seems to see non-combat operations as a purpose slightly ahead of defense, and that Starfleet personnel seem to serve entirely voluntarily and at will (except for under emergency circumstances such as *during* Red or Yellow Alert, or when all hands were needed for survival as when Voyager was stranded in the Delta Quadrant) and seem to be able to separate from the service or take sabbaticals more or less as they see fit. (It *is* possible, I guess, that this wouldn't apply to their first tour of duty, and that we just haven't seen that because everyone that we've actually *seen* do this on-screen has been beyond that and into an ongoing service period beyond that.) To me, though, these seems less like differences that would make them not a military, and more like an evolution of the current pattern of voluntary service in the American military, and of trying to keep our resources useful and exercised at all times even outside of combat operations.
So my answer would be that, yes, Starfleet is a "navy" or similar military service organization. Next question.
So do the Department of Public Health, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
So does this
That's actually where NCC- came from. Gene just tacked on an extra C to make it sound "futuristic"
Indeed. In fact, they actually made a point of NOT building ANY warships until the Defiant came along.
You mean like this thing?
Crewed by civilian mariners.
If by slightly, you mean entirely, then yes...
"Starfleet is not a military organization; its purpose is exploration" ~ Jean-Luc Picard
The USNS Mercy's medical and support personnel are military. As a non-commissioned naval vessel, ship functions are run by civilians, but the US Navy (a military organization) owns the ship, tells it where to go, and what to do.
Major difference between modern hospital ships and Starfleet vessels is the hospital ships are unarmed, while Starfleet vessels (typically) are incredible heavily armed.
The Common Access Card is the current name for the ID card carried by military personnel, DOD civilian employees, contractors, and certain other persons. There are four versions of the card, one of which is for military personnel.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and U.S. Public Health Services (PHS) commissioned officers are issued the military version.
In other words, yes they are military personnel.
Last edited:
Captain Beverly Picard commanded a hospital ship. So Starfleet has, in it's fleet, Hospital ships, battleships, deep space exploration vessels, science vessels, carriers, starfighters, etc.
The way this quote is being used here is setting up a false dichotomy. "Military" and "exploration" are not mutually exclusive terms. Nobody here(as far as I know) is saying that Starfleet is "militaristic."
The starship Voyager is a "Deep Space Exploration Vessel." It's equipped with sensor arrays, science labs, etc. It's not supposed to be a "battleship," yet it's armed to the teeth. It's maiden voyage was to track down a Maquis Raider. Yet Beverly's hospital ship wasn't armed for battle. The Federation also conducts scientific exploration and research without Starfleet.
In Star Wars, the Republic truly had NO military. To fight a war, they had to build one from the ground up.
The way this quote is being used here is setting up a false dichotomy. "Military" and "exploration" are not mutually exclusive terms. Nobody here(as far as I know) is saying that Starfleet is "militaristic."
The starship Voyager is a "Deep Space Exploration Vessel." It's equipped with sensor arrays, science labs, etc. It's not supposed to be a "battleship," yet it's armed to the teeth. It's maiden voyage was to track down a Maquis Raider. Yet Beverly's hospital ship wasn't armed for battle. The Federation also conducts scientific exploration and research without Starfleet.
In Star Wars, the Republic truly had NO military. To fight a war, they had to build one from the ground up.
Last edited:
Here's where the issue lies. It's where you put the "also" in terms of defining Starfleet.
Is Starfleet:
A: A military organization that also conducts scientific research and exploration of space?
B: An exploratory and scientific organization that also conducts defense?
By the definition the shows and movies have given us through on-screen dialogue and story, Starfleet is more properly defined as the second option.
Is Starfleet:
A: A military organization that also conducts scientific research and exploration of space?
B: An exploratory and scientific organization that also conducts defense?
By the definition the shows and movies have given us through on-screen dialogue and story, Starfleet is more properly defined as the second option.
Sorry. I should correct this. I vaguely remember reading about NATO being part of the cause of the Berlin Wall's existence. That, combined with a metaphorical reference to the USA/Mexico wall as "Berlin Wall", and got things mixed up. After some additional reading, I'd like to clarify:
The Warsaw Treaty Organization demanded neutralization and demilitarization of West Berlin. In 1961 NATO confirms that it will continue the presence of its armed forces in the western part of the city. Meanwhile, there is a massive propaganda from the West about a "better life" than in the East. This finally causes the construction of the Wall by East Germany.
Last edited:
Like the currency debate, there is dialogue that can be used to support either position. OP put an extensive list together at the beginning of this thread.
For instance "We'll give you military aid."
When SF goes on these deep space missions, what is their goal most often? It's to chart the uncharted, and make contact with new civilizations. In TOS, they will often FORCE diplomatic contact with reclusive races, such as in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "A Taste of Armageddon."
Can't we just call Starfleet a Navy?
For instance "We'll give you military aid."
When SF goes on these deep space missions, what is their goal most often? It's to chart the uncharted, and make contact with new civilizations. In TOS, they will often FORCE diplomatic contact with reclusive races, such as in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "A Taste of Armageddon."
Can't we just call Starfleet a Navy?
It was pretty tragic. I'm sure life was better in West Berlin, but after the wall went up, life got much worse in East Berlin. It's really sad what happened in places like Germany, Korea, and Vietnam following the war. My sister's Husband is S. Korean. His Mother has stories about when she was a child during the Korean War, her mother would cook meals for both the North Korean soldiers, and the South Korean Soldiers. They live(d) near Seoul, and one side would retake the area, then the other side would take it back.
When the ceasefire was made, she had many relatives she never saw again.
C: All of the above.
- Status
