Starfleet Enlisted

[J.T.B.]

As for cadets, I couldn't find any real world precedence but I always think of "Starship Troopers" when it is discussed. The section is too long to write out, but the basic concept is that cadets may receive promotions (in the book to third lieutenant) at the end of their course of instruction, which puts them in the chain of command. So, I imagine that cadets can be field promoted if the situation warrants it.

In the US Navy, anyway, midshipmen have official precedence sandwiched in between grade W-1 (warrant) and W-2 (commissioned warrant). In practice this doesn't really matter because the only times they are in contact with real units, summer cruises and such, the the petty officers have authority over them as instructors. A midshipman who tries to throw his "rank" around with a senior petty officer is headed for a come-uppance he will surely regret.

In the 20th century, in the US at least, officer training became heavily academic, with commissions being granted along with the college degree. The thing in Starship Troopers is a throwback to earlier times, when commissions were only granted after a probationary period of on-the-job training and actual service in operating units. Until 1912 (only 17 years before Heinlein graduated) midshipmen graduating from the US Naval Academy had to then serve two years in the fleet before being commissioned as ensigns. This was partly left over from the days when the only way to get a commission was "apprenticeship" at sea, and partly a reflection of the fact that being an officer at sea, especially in the sailing navy, required a complex skill set that could only really be acquired by first-hand experience; graduates going into the Marines were commissioned 2nd lieutenants immediately.

 

[timmy84]

I had always assumed that since in the US Navy the enlisted ranks reflect the job they have, that the same applies to Starfleet. So O'Brian is a Chief Petty Officer, but official in his position his rank is Chief of Operations.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I had always assumed that since in the US Navy the enlisted ranks reflect the job they have, that the same applies to Starfleet. So O'Brian is a Chief Petty Officer, but official in his position his rank is Chief of Operations.

Technically (similar to the modern "Chief of the Boat" [from which IMO it is derived]) Chief of Operations would actually be his title, his rank (know as rate in US naval settings) would either be Operations Specialist Chief or Engineering Specialist Chief (later Senior Chief).

 

[T'Girl]

but official in his position his rank is Chief of Operations.

No, O'Brien's assignment is chief of operations, in no fashion is that his rank.

Similarly, Janice Rand's (likely) specialty is yeoman, and we know that there are different grades of yeoman. Her assignment is "Captain's yeoman." However this is not Rand's rank, I don't believe we were ever told this.



+

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

No, O'Brien's assignment is chief of operations, in no fashion is that his rank.

Similarly, Janice Rand's (likely) specialty is yeoman, and we know that there are different grades of yeoman. Her assignment is "Captain's yeoman." However this is not Rand's rank, I don't believe we were ever told this.



+

No more than a Chief Petty Officer (as she was identified as holding this rank during the Fletcher era), but more than Yeoman Third Class (as she is nominally outranks (and is definately older than) Tina Lawton who based on the WWII-era US Navy Specialist system (which ran from Chief (1) to PO3 (4)), Lawton would either be a PO2 or Crewman 1st Class in Starfleet terminology (an Engineer Grade 4 would be a Crewman/Ables'man, equivalent of a RN Able Seaman or 'rated' USN Crewman (E3) - so Rand would most likely be a Yeoman 2nd class (PO/PO1 in RW terminology) during TOS.

 

[T'Girl]

No more than a Chief Petty Officer (as she was identified as holding this rank during the Fletcher era),

Chief Petty Officer is without question a rank.

And who or what is a "fletcher?"


+

 

[J.T.B.]

No more than a Chief Petty Officer (as she was identified as holding this rank during the Fletcher era), but more than Yeoman Third Class (as she is nominally outranks (and is definately older than) Tina Lawton who based on the WWII-era US Navy Specialist system (which ran from Chief (1) to PO3 (4)), Lawton would either be a PO2 or Crewman 1st Class in Starfleet terminology[...].

I don't know what this refers to. The WW2 USN Specialist was simply a PO rating for a number of specialties that were not part of the peacetime navy; the grades were the same as other enlisted rates. Lawton's Yeoman 3rd Class would have been its own rate in WW2, just as it is today.

 

[The Wormhole]

.
And who or what is a "fletcher?"

Robert Fletcher, the costume designer of the TOS movies.

Memory Alpha suggests Rand was a Chief Petty Officer in TMP, but I'm not sure what they base that on. She definitely wore an enlisted uniform when she showed up in TVH, though I don't recall her rank insignia.

 

[J.T.B.]

Memory Alpha suggests Rand was a Chief Petty Officer in TMP, but I'm not sure what they base that on.

Behind-the-scenes info from The Making of Star Trek the Motion Picture, most likely.

 

[fireproof78]

It's hard to tell but I found this picture.
But her epaulets are just yellow. Also, interesting is that Rand ends up a Lieutenant J.G. in TUC.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Robert Fletcher, the costume designer of the TOS movies.

Memory Alpha suggests Rand was a Chief Petty Officer in TMP, but I'm not sure what they base that on. She definitely wore an enlisted uniform when she showed up in TVH, though I don't recall her rank insignia.

Who was responsible for the most complete scheme (tho not all of it was used on screen) of ranks that acknowledges the existence and use of enlisted personnel, slightly truncated relative to the USN system - it doesn't include command Master chief or warrant officer (W1-W5) insignia and has less levels below that (though very similar to the Royal Navy at time of creation: Ables'man ("Qualified Crewman"), Petty Officer 2 (except TMP), Petty Officer 1, Chief Petty Officer, Senior Chief Petty Officer (except TMP), Master Chief Petty Officer (except TMP)). A similar system may have been in place during at least some of the late 2360s to 2370s as Crewman, Crewman 1st Class, Petty Officer, Chief Petty Officer and Senior Chief Petty Officer/Specialist where all mentioned at various points even if costuming errors have made it a little difficult to pin down exactly.


J.T.B., while you are correct that modern US Navy usage would put Tina Lawton at Petty Officer (Yeoman) 3rd Class, roughly equal to a Army or Marines Corporal, this rank has never provided for under either of the above systems for Starfleet ranks (and the modern system didn't come in fully until the 70s). However, if we consider the 1941 to 1948 USN system (which would likely be more familiar to most of the writing staff during TOS and early TNG than the 1948-1974 interim system or the current (post-1975) system), and merge it with the Royal Navy system (which it's likely they were somewhat familiar) then you can reconcile both Yeoman 3rd Class and the other reference to Engineer Grade 4, into a system that fits all the available evidence.

http://uniform-reference.net/insignia/usn/usn_ww2_enl_specialist.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist_(rank)#Specialties_.281942-1948.29.5B9.5D

 

[FormerLurker]

Chief Petty Officer is without question a rank.

And who or what is a "fletcher?"


+

Entomologically, a fletcher is an arrow-maker. But this VV is the answer you are after.

Robert Fletcher, the costume designer of the TOS movies.

Memory Alpha suggests Rand was a Chief Petty Officer in TMP, but I'm not sure what they base that on. She definitely wore an enlisted uniform when she showed up in TVH, though I don't recall her rank insignia.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I remember reading one of the novels where enlisted personnel were being referred to as "Crewperson". I find that going a little too far personally, it's not as if they've started using the rank Compersonder.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I remember reading one of the novels where enlisted personnel were being referred to as "Crewperson". I find that going a little too far personally, it's not as if they've started using the rank Compersonder.

Lol.

Fortunately, canon has only ever used Crewman. Though the Starfleet policy of using 'sir' and 'Mister' for both men and women (and presumably most non or third gender officers) is a similar related head-scratcher.

 

[Metryq]

the Starfleet policy of using 'sir' and 'Mister' for both men and women (and presumably most non or third gender officers) is a similar related head-scratcher.

Holmes-san, perhaps Starfleet is run by Japanese?

 

[J.T.B.]

J.T.B., while you are correct that modern US Navy usage would put Tina Lawton at Petty Officer (Yeoman) 3rd Class, roughly equal to a Army or Marines Corporal, this rank has never provided for under either of the above systems for Starfleet ranks (and the modern system didn't come in fully until the 70s). However, if we consider the 1941 to 1948 USN system (which would likely be more familiar to most of the writing staff during TOS and early TNG than the 1948-1974 interim system or the current (post-1975) system), and merge it with the Royal Navy system (which it's likely they were somewhat familiar) then you can reconcile both Yeoman 3rd Class and the other reference to Engineer Grade 4, into a system that fits all the available evidence.

What? Yeoman 3rd Class was a rate in WW2, and it has been for over a century, so I don't know why the rating of Specialist keeps coming up. We don't know how "grade four" corresponds to "third class," so there's no need to reconcile the two. And what "post-1975" system? There was a major overhaul of enlisted rates in 1948, and the pay grades were re-numbered (with E-1 at the bottom) in 1949. E-8 and E-9 were created in 1958. There have been many rating establishments, disestablishments and mergers over the years, but I don't know of any major changes in 1975.

I remember reading one of the novels where enlisted personnel were being referred to as "Crewperson". I find that going a little too far personally, it's not as if they've started using the rank Compersonder.

Ha, I never thought of that. But it comes from the Latin mandare, similar to "mandate," nothing to do with the English "man."

But that does bring up some recent news on the subject:
Navy Looks To Remove 'Man' From All Job Titles.
Change Of Rate Names A Hot Topic As Top Navy Leaders Meet With Norfolk Sailors.

 

[Timo]

No, O'Brien's assignment is chief of operations, in no fashion is that his rank.

Except by his very own words, in "Tribunal":

"My name is Miles O'Brien. My rank, Chief of Operations, Starfleet. I'm a Federation citizen."

Then there is "Shadowplay":

"Nowadays, when I go home, he introduces me as 'my son, Senior Chief Specialist Miles Edward O'Brien'. "

O'Brien also is called "another Chief Petty Officer" by Sergey Rodzhenko and "rank: Chief Petty Officer" by the Jem'Hadar Goran'Agar, and doesn't contradict these people.

We can say he's being rude and dishonest in "Tribunal" and polite in "Family" and "Hippocratic Oath" and in fact the designations used in those episodes are all incorrect, but why would he be rude to Cardassians but timid with the Jem'Hadar?

Basically, we should be able to establish what games Starfleet plays with rank names in the 24th century simply by accepting all the above evidence. There might be several all-new levels of Chief Petty Officer, with Chief (PO) of Operations jammed somewhere between or around CPO and SCPO...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

I remember reading one of the novels where enlisted personnel were being referred to as "Crewperson". I find that going a little too far personally, it's not as if they've started using the rank Compersonder.

Reminds me of a conversation I had one time where someone tried to argue women can't be managers because the word is manager, not womanager.

Though the Starfleet policy of using 'sir' and 'Mister' for both men and women (and presumably most non or third gender officers) is a similar related head-scratcher.

That is how its done in the US military, supposedly it's considered less sexist.

 

[Timo]

Net sources tend to disagree: "ma'am" appears the default expression for female officers and warrant officers, while "ladies" may be used for plural.

But Starfleet could go for simplicity. Or for diversity, as Janeway makes it sound like a personal preference first and foremost.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

What? Yeoman 3rd Class was a rate in WW2, and it has been for over a century, so I don't know why the rating of Specialist keeps coming up. We don't know how "grade four" corresponds to "third class," so there's no need to reconcile the two. And what "post-1975" system? There was a major overhaul of enlisted rates in 1948, and the pay grades were re-numbered (with E-1 at the bottom) in 1949. E-8 and E-9 were created in 1958. There have been many rating establishments, disestablishments and mergers over the years, but I don't know of any major changes in 1975.



Ha, I never thought of that. But it comes from the Latin mandare, similar to "mandate," nothing to do with the English "man."

But that does bring up some recent news on the subject:
Navy Looks To Remove 'Man' From All Job Titles.
Change Of Rate Names A Hot Topic As Top Navy Leaders Meet With Norfolk Sailors.

Actually "Specialist" isn't being used as a rating per se but rather as a generic placeholder, the same way "Petty Officer" is mostly used in the current system "when the sailor's rating is not known". One could also speculate that in the Star Trek setting, someone like O'Brien who appears to have cross-rated at least twice (from "soldier" (Mostly likely Armoury as he served as a Tactical Officer during the same period) to Transporter Specialist (on NCC-1701-D) to either Operations or Enginnering (DS9) so isn't a 'single area specialist' anymore also does so to indicate his capabilities are more "officer-like".

I'll admit that my sources are incomplete as far as the "post-1975" thing, though Wikipedia at least suggests that something called Emergency Service Ratings or Emergency Ratings were used for Specialists in the Naval Reserve from 1948 to 1974 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist_(rank)#Emergency_Service_ratings_.281948-1974.29, though most ratings were apparently integrated in the regular PO structure by 1964.