Starfleet Command Insignia

[Robert Comsol]

But, isn't Wesley the only officer whose insignia we get a good look at on the Lexington? I always thought that he wore the flower because he was normally assigned to starbase/space station, but he was in command of the battle fleet in wargames against the M5. If that was the case, then we never see the Lexington insignia. Now the question would then become, where was the captain of the Lexington, and that I have no answer for.

That space station in "The Ultimate Computer" was already under the jurisdiction of Commodore Enwright. To think that Robert Wesley replaced the Lexington's captain in a training exercise (!) that had been tested in previous simulations (!) would constitute quite a mobbing career blow to the actual captain. I'd rather like to think that this hadn't been the case.

Bob

 

[Robert Comsol]

My rationalization for non-Enterprise personnel wearing the delta is it's a fleet emblem, not a ship emblem.

The officers in the "Court-Martial" starbase club and the (hard to recognize) uniform insignias of the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web" would seem to justify this theory, but then there are the insignias of the Constellation (Commodore Decker!) and the Exeter to be considered / explained (i.e. why should Enterprise have a general fleet emblem and these two other ships don't?)

I have this pet theory according to which every seven years the achievements of Starfleet's starships are evaluated and the "best" ship is honored by adapting its insignia for Starfleet (all non-starship personnel).

It would appear that by the time of TOS Lexington has become this ship. The previous winner was Pike's Enterprise (some Starfleet non-starship uniforms still wear the delta) and after TOS it will be the Enterprise again (and maybe together with another starship with a circular insignia. )

The only unseen insignia I believe we can all have a pretty good idea what it did look like is the one of the Intrepid. Because of its Vulcan crew it most likely looked like an IDIC.
Just my 0.02 $.

Bob

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Here's a lively discussion from a few months back on known insignia in TOS, TAS, and ENT, and a squadron organization proposal. The whole thread is well worth reading, and not that long.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My rationalization for non-Enterprise personnel wearing the delta is it's a fleet emblem, not a ship emblem.

The officers in the "Court-Martial" starbase club and the (hard to recognize) uniform insignias of the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web" would seem to justify this theory, but then there are the insignias of the Constellation (Commodore Decker!) and the Exeter to be considered / explained (i.e. why should Enterprise have a general fleet emblem and these two other ships don't?)

The Constellation and the Exeter belong to different fleets.

 

[Masao]

Good work, DakotaSmith!
Now, can you track this down?

 

[Maurice]

According to internal memos there was discussion that the insignia on the Enterprise uniforms were for "starship crews", the ones seen in Charlie X were merchant marine like, etc. There's an amusing memo where Justman rags on Theiss about a mistake re a fellow ship Captain's insignia, but by the point that memo was written they'll already blown it and have different insignias for Decker and Tracy so the die was cast.

 

[Robert Comsol]

There's an amusing memo where Justman rags on Theiss about a mistake re a fellow ship Captain's insignia, but by the point that memo was written they'll already blown it and have different insignias for Decker and Tracy so the die was cast.

That's a story I'd like to hear or a memo I'd like to read.

Considering all the fuzz TOS made about the prestige and privilege of being a starship captain (including Commodores) I think Theiss draw the correct conclusion that starship insignias should be individual and unique.

With the merchant marine it's a different story. Rewatching "The Trouble with Tribbles" recently I noticed during the K-7 brawl one bystander wearing the Antares costume from "Charlie X" (and another one wearing Finnegan's costume).

Bob

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ Yeah, I'd like to read that memo, too.

 

[Harvey]

Here's the memo Maurice is referring to:

TO: Bill Theiss
FROM: Bob Justman
SUBJECT: STARSHIP EMBLEMS
DATE: December 18, 1967

Whilst sitting in Dailies today, it was noticed that a Starship Captain (from another Starship) was wearing an emblem unfamiliar to yours truly. I have checked the occurences out with Mr. Roddenberry, who has reassured me that all Starship personnel wear the Starship emblem that we have established for our Enterprise Crew Members to wear.

Doubtless this situation has arisen due to the fact that a different Starship emblem was used last season on “CHARLIE X”. However, the personnel of that other ship in that show were the equivalent of merchant marine or freighter personnel -- and therefore not entitled to bear this proud insignia on their individual and collective breasts.

Please do not do anything to correct this understandable mistake in the present episode. However, should we have Starfleet personnel in any other episodes, please make certain that they were the proper emblem.

Under penalty of death!

Signed this 18th day of December, in the year of our Lord, 1967, by

ROBERT H. JUSTMAN
Chief Inquisitor

CC: Gene Roddenberry
John M. Lucas
D.C. Fontana
Gregg Peters

RHJ:sts
P.S. A carven “I’m sorry!” will be sufficient.
R.H.J.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ Wow. What a bombshell! Thanks!

 

[Wingsley]

This absolutely does not explain the rectangular badge worn by the crew of the U.S.S. Exeter ("The Omega Glory", 1968) as seen on both Capt. Tracey and the ship's C.M.O.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

This absolutely does not explain the rectangular badge worn by the crew of the U.S.S. Exeter ("The Omega Glory", 1968) as seen on both Capt. Tracey and the ship's C.M.O.

So, it's referring to Decker's pretzel?

Maybe there are some more memos?

 

[Harvey]

I haven't been able to find any further memorandum on this issue.

I'm not sure what dailies Justman was watching (I found the memo in a box and folder devoted to wardrobe items, not a particular episode).

The information I have indicates that "The Omega Glory" was filmed on December 18-26, 1967. I was under the impression that it took 24 hours to turn around dailies, but perhaps a date is slightly wrong somewhere, and that's the episode Justman was watching dailies from.

Justman couldn't have been watching dailies from "The Doomsday Machine," though. That was filmed on June 20-26, and broadcast on October 20, 1967, months before Justman's insignia memo.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well, that's strange then, and hard to square with Decker's unique pretzel insignia, a much more recent thing than the Antares insignia.

 

[Wingsley]

Silly question: did anyone ever confirm what insignia (if any) were worn by the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web"?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Silly question: did anyone ever confirm what insignia (if any) were worn by the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web"?

You mean on screen?

Going by the fact that Bjo Trimble's Star Trek Concordance shows a completely different badge from that shown in ENT: In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II, and one evidently of fan origin, by Robert Wood, I'd have to say that I really, really doubt it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Silly question: did anyone ever confirm what insignia (if any) were worn by the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web"?

There are a few shots of the dead crew where the insignia is clearly the delta/arrowhead.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd0270.jpg

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Silly question: did anyone ever confirm what insignia (if any) were worn by the Defiant's crew in "The Tholian Web"?

There are a few shots of the dead crew where the insignia is clearly the delta/arrowhead.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd0270.jpg

I won't go so far as to say that it's "clear" in that shot, because I have to squint to see it, even on this HD image. And I'd bet that was impossible to make out on first run broadcasts.

But I agree that it is the arrowhead on the redshirt there. Thanks for that.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd0228.jpg is much clearer.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Under penalty of death!

Signed this 18th day of December, in the year of our Lord, 1967, by

ROBERT H. JUSTMAN
Chief Inquisitor

I really love Bobby Justman's style. Hopefully his memo will put an end to these unfounded claims / excuses for lack of proper TOS research that "they often didn't know what they were doing." (which were also quite upsetting my stomach, I should add).

That passionate devotion to detail clearly indicates the contrary.

"The Tholian Web" is just another beautiful example, that you can either choose the "Thermian" or the "Brandon" approach.

For the Thermians - taking the on-screen information literal - there'd be enough evidence that the crew of the Defiant also wore the Enterprise insignia.

The fact, however, that almost all the bodies of the extras were deliberately positioned to obscure the insignia, would indicate it would or should have been a different one, but because of schedule and/or budget restrictions that was probably not possible.

Bob

 

[J.T.B.]

I really love Bobby Justman's style. Hopefully his memo will put an end to these unfounded claims / excuses for lack of proper TOS research that "they often didn't know what they were doing." (which were also quite upsetting my stomach, I should add).

That passionate devotion to detail clearly indicates the contrary.

But the memo doesn't really support that. It shows one producer relying on memory, and apparently forgetting the Matt Decker insignia and the "Balance of Terror" Outpost insignia.

The wardrobe department could easily have put together a notebook or file with the previously-used insignia and what they were supposed to mean (and maybe what the commander/lieutenant commander stripes were, while they were at it). If there's a question, look here, there's the answer. Apparently they didn't have anything to reference. And that's completely understandable, they had bigger things to worry about. But it doesn't really indicate a passionate devotion to detail.

Interesting memo, though, thanks to Harvey for posting.

Justin