Starfleet Academy, the bottom half of graduates.

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by valkyrie013, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. GNDN18

    GNDN18 Shoes for Industry! Premium Member

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    I believe that Commodore Stocker graduated with that part of the class which makes the upper half possible.
    5D330F78-30DC-48CB-94CF-39898E4AB18B.gif
     
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  2. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why not? They have trillions to choose from. And no doubt millions apply, simply to fight boredom. If anything, Starfleet might need an explicit public policy of taking in a certain number of stupid people, so as not to look too elitist.

    Indeed. Paint me a herbert, but it's a fallacy to think that the bottom half would be inferior to the top half in anything much. For all we know, the exams and whatnot that decide the ranking are more a lottery than a true test of merit, at that overall level of excellence.

    Although the case of Doctors Bashir and Lense is a bit worrying there. Bashir deliberately blew an entire question in the final exams in order to be behind Lense - but only behind Lense, with nobody else from that class managing to grab silver. Does it follow that everybody else blew a whole question, too, and through sheer incompetence? I could well see Bashir using his superpowers to calculate exactly how much he has to lose in order to achieve his goal, and being somewhat distressed to find out it amounts to a whole question. But it still leaves their classmates looking less than brilliant. Although this really depends on the total number of questions, and perhaps the Starfleet Medical Final Exam has a hundred of those?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Also how are test done at the Academy are they a mix of practical and theory? It is possible someone to do better at practical exams rather than theory exams and vice versa and some do well at both.
     
  4. Kilana2

    Kilana2 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Especially after war times like the

    Borg Invasion

    in the novels. I guess they lowered the standards for admission. They are still lacking in personnel.
     
  5. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Wesley was supposedly trying to get in while underage. He would be fifteen or sixteen in "Coming of Age", while the other human heroes appear to have made their first attempts at seventeen or eighteen. Presumably it would take a bit of extra to enter when not quite meeting the basic formal requirements.

    It's not as if Starfleet would risk losing the other candidates in the process, I guess. They would just try again next year, or the one after that, or then just waltz in while coming of age... But regulating the inflow of hopefuls would have to be done somehow, and insisting on formal criteria such as (species-specific?) entry age sounds like a good starting point there.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  6. Infern0

    Infern0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They are on those Miranda class ships we see getting one shotted in the Dominion war.
     
  7. Kilana2

    Kilana2 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Red Squad. They became cannon fodder. Sometimes it is better not to be on top of the class.
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    They let Chakotay back in after the second time he resigned. They let Ro Laren back after two betrayals. Hell, Starfleet didn't just let them back, they promoted them to Captain.
     
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  9. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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  10. GNDN18

    GNDN18 Shoes for Industry! Premium Member

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    The RN was better with Lord Cochrane than without him.

    Just saying.
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Given how large the Federation is, perhaps they can?
     
  12. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    I guess it depends on how big Starfleet is but with a population likely in the hundreds of billions if not getting on for a trillion it's likely they can be somewhat selective.
     
  13. Eman1986

    Eman1986 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Who do you think did most of the grunt work and died in the Dominion War? Those guys and enlisted men.
     
  14. Farscape One

    Farscape One Commodore Commodore

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    I think it's very possible for Academy graduates to be top of their class but still advance really slowly.

    Look at Data. In every physical and intellectual way, he outdoes virtually every species in the Federation. But it took him 15 years to get to Lt. Cmdr.? But given how his very nature lacks ambition, that is likely what held him back.

    Riker got to be XO of the flagship of the Federation in what, 5 or 6 years?

    Picard got to be Captain in what, 6 or 7 years? But he took advantage of opportunities that showed up, as listed by Q in "Tapestry". It really is a combination of brains, ability, and just luck at being in the right place at the right time.

    And we have to remember that the ability to command people is not something everyone can do... almost anything like science, medicine, history, etc., can be taught. You have to have certain intangible qualities to be a good leader.
     
  15. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why do people think they might not end up on the Enterprise? Someone has to clean up the holodeck after Riker needs to go find some time to relax! Who do you think feeds Livingston? Since we know the ship doesn't have toilets it means somebody has to be on chamber pot duties at all-time! Those plants in the corridors, don't water themselves. Same with the Dolphins. Or Livingston, again!

    Jason
     
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  16. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not quite. Data doesn't have emotions, and it's clear that even after years around those that do he doesn't understand them. This leave Data stunted in a very important area, and would inhibit his ability to command.

    In Humans this psychological condition is called alexithymia.
     
  17. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commander Red Shirt

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    Well there is the Enlisted personel like Miles Obrien, Crewman Cuttler, Crewman Daniels.. any ship now adays is 75%? enlisted the rest is officers, or, to many chiefs, not enough indians?
    For enlisted, they just have to go to a "Boot Camp" of sorts and then go to speicific training for there job. Today is a 4 year enlistment, so first year is school, then 3 years on a ship/station/asteroid etc.

    Would love them to show an episode from a lowly crewman's perspective, I mean a straight out of boot/school first time on a starship greenhorn! ( You authors on here.. this is an idea I'm freely giving!)
     
  18. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Today (in America) so do officers.
     
  19. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commander Red Shirt

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    Today, Officers have to have a college degree, so to me, the academy is like the Navel, or air force academy, or west point, where you have a good school, but also some military training. To me, the Academy isn't just on Earth (that would be kinda pointless, its just like say.. Harvard or Duke.. a more prestigious place.) Have an academy on most federation worlds, or atleast 1 per sector.. I mean, there probably are 100 of thousands of incoming recruits every year.. having them all in 1 place? thats pandemonium!
    Now say if they go to the Vulcan Institute for Design.. can they be commissioned in to starfleet? I'd say a soft yes.. if they meet the requirements.
     
  20. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think it stands to reason that pretty much everyone else got the post ganglionic fiber question correct. Where they would lose more points would be in the other more difficult questions that Bashir and Lense got completely correct. And yes, I'm sure Starfleet Medical Final Exam has hundreds of questions, so a single basic question would be worth a fraction of a point.