Star Wars: Visions - Anime Anthology Series

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by JD, Jul 4, 2021.

  1. lightspeedbear

    lightspeedbear Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Star Wars is "about" different things to different people. From what I've seen of your posts, I think you need to realise and be more open minded about that. For example, I'm in love with the starfighter/Rebel Alliance side of things. It's why I'm looking forward to say Andor or Rangers more than the Obi Wan Kenobi series.

    What I do agree with is that you give filmmakers from a nation famous for samurai films creative license to do something in Star Wars, of course they're all going to be about lightsaber duels. My point, and others, is more communication in season 2 would allow for a wider variety of story-telling. Star Wars is about more than just Jedi and Sith. There's so much potential out there, I gave a handful of examples above but there's so many other possibilities.

    We're not saying they're identical. Just similar.

    Tatooine Rhapsody shows how you can tell a completely different story set in Star Wars. Same with Solo or Rogue One, or Resistance, or The Bad Batch.

    Coming from the man that says...

    ??
     
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  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It largely can't decide what it wants to be doing, and the characters suffer because of it. Din feels like a less capable character at times than in Season 1, even against Imperials, and then immediately turns around and becomes awesome again. The story feels like it exists largely to satisfy fan itches around legacy characters, rather than feeling like an ongoing extension of the world, so characters pop in and out in very strange ways.
     
  3. lightspeedbear

    lightspeedbear Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Very surface level nebulous complaints, do you have any actual specifics? What do you mean it can't decide what it wants to be? That accusation could be levelled at Discovery or Picard, changing narrative and tonal course constantly, but Mando? It feels like a singular vision executed well from start to finish, and Din himself never felt inconsistent to me :shrug:
     
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  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not to me. In one episode he is a killer, and then he is brokering peace and getting annoyed at people killing. Then he is guilted in to being a hero. He fights Imperials no problem then is surprised by Bo's success in taking a transport.

    He goes from killer, to hero to reluctant good guy. He journeys along and feels aimless in the quest. I had no idea what to expect from each episode, or exactly how Din would react.
     
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  5. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, yes and yes.

    Yes. And I'm smarter than you, which is why you liked it and I didn't.
     
  6. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Din is SUCH a poorly-defined character that you can make a case for almost anything and see almost anything you want to see. There's no real fundamental core to him.

    It was just a fundamentally terrible idea to give us a protagonist who barely speaks and whose face is concealed behind a helmet the entire time. There's zero to latch onto 90% of the time.

    Din is defined by his heroic heel turn to not let Grogu fall into the hands of the Empire, who he assumes have nefarious purposes in mind.

    That's all fine. That's a good character moment. But, outside of the context of that decision, there's nothing there other than the very tired trope of the "stoic badass" who we've seen in fiction only about a billion times. And once that big moment happens very early in season 1, he gets no further development whatsoever.

    And his big turn would have felt much more engaging had we known even a LITTLE more about him beyond "Well, he's a professional badass, so this is a big deal for him, we promise! Take our word for it!"

    This, of course, is why I am very worried about the future of the show. Without Baby Yoda there's even less to go on.
     
  7. lightspeedbear

    lightspeedbear Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You seem to be conveniently forgetting the whole 'orphaned at a young age, hates droids because of it, rescued and looked after by a cult of religious zealots and clinging to old fashioned rules about how to behave' layered on top of the 'mysterious stranger' characterisation (Star Wars is a space Western after all). Tell me, how much character development did Han or Leia get in the original trilogy to latch onto. Answer, they didn't have much, they were just likeable, relatable characters that people enjoyed watching.

    This obsession with knowing everything about everyone in Star Wars in minute detail is so tiring. Fans demanded to know Rey's lineage after 7, they demanded to know who Snoke was after 8. It's so tedious. Just enjoy the mystery and the answers will come.

    You say it was a fundamentally terrible idea to give us a protagonist who barely speaks (which is a weird thing to say, he talks plenty) and hides his face behind a mask... yet The Mandalorian is probably the most universally beloved and critically acclaimed Star Wars thing since the OT.

    You yourself might not like it, and that's of course perfectly ok, but don't say "it's a bad show" and "they made a mistake doing this" when it's one of the biggest series in entertainment at the moment. If you want introspective character development, I suspect Andor or Obi-Wan might be more to your liking.
     
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  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's a bad show...for me. I don't have any other way to say it. Din is not likable, not relatable, not an enjoyable character for me to watch. Which would be OK if but he is the main character. So, while I can appreciate some aspects of the show being told repeatedly it's the best show ever is tiresome too.
     
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  9. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    http://fallacyoftheweek.professorsykes.com/fallacy-types/appeal-to-popularity/
     
  10. lightspeedbear

    lightspeedbear Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I should have stopped trying to have reasonable debate at this point:

     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Cool! Are we going to unreasonable debate now? :D :beer::ouch:
     
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  12. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That wasn't directed at you.

    In other news, I'm perfectly within my rights to declare it a bad show and to point out its making storytelling/writing mistakes. I don't have to couch it in mealy-mouthed "Uh, well, it just wasn't for me" nonsense.
     
  13. lightspeedbear

    lightspeedbear Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It doesn't matter who it was directed at, it illustrates the immaturity of your posts and the futility of trying to converse rationally.

    And you're within your rights to state your opinion that it's a bad show, and your opinion that it makes storytelling/writing mistakes, absolutely.
     
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  14. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I have been nothing but rational with you the entire time. The other guy has been a jerk to me in the past so I responded accordingly.
     
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  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I just finished watching Visions. I decided to watch it in Japanese, since I watch a lot of Japanese TV with subtitles and it felt appropriate. And I think it was definitely the right choice. Most of these are steeped in the Japanese cultural and historical elements that Lucas only tried to imitate from the outside, so I don't think I would've gotten the full flavor if I'd watched the English dub. Still, the only subtitles available are the closed-captioning subs for the English version, so I could tell that sometimes the dialogue was changed -- or other things, like how the captions for "Lop and Ochō" specified a female narrator at the beginning when it was a male narrator in Japanese.

    I see a lot of talk in the early pages of this thread about the canon question (before it got dragged off topic), but I don't see much of an issue there. Most of them are pretty clear about what point in the timeline they occupy -- ranging from the days of the Republic ("The Elder") to centuries after the Skywalker Saga ("The Ninth Jedi") -- and it's a big enough galaxy that I can believe these side stories could've happened somewhere, with variants of Jedi and Sith and lightsaber designs that never happened to show up in the Skywalker Saga. I mean, it's no weirder than the Darksaber or the Nightsisters. There were a few things that were hard to swallow, like the Twins breathing in space or the Astro Boy droid somehow becoming a Jedi, but that's okay. Fans today tend to take Star Wars way too seriously and forget that it was meant as a fun adventure for kids of all ages. All of it is pure fantasy without any pretense of realism. And there's room for poetic license here and there.

    Individually:

    "The Duel": Eh, it was okay. Maybe a bit too much what you'd expect from a Japanese riff on Star Wars, just a straight-up ronin-vs.-warlord story dressed up with lightsabers and droids. Interesting look, mostly monochrome.

    "Tatooine Rhapsody": A relatively fun bit of fluff, insubstantial but a nice departure from the usual war stories, with the protagonist finding a different way to defeat the villain.

    "The Twins": Not a favorite. It feels like it's just a bunch of SW and anime tropes blended together. Maybe that's true of a lot of these, but it felt more blatant here. And it went way too over-the-top with the swordfight in space. A decent idea with the two core characters, but it could've been executed better.

    "The Village Bride": A nice one, with an interesting application of the Force (I assume), with the shrine that shows visions of the planet's past.

    "The Ninth Jedi": Certainly a highlight, almost a movie-worthy story in its own right. An intriguing glimpse into a possible far future for the franchise. Most of these revolve heavily around lightsabers, but this one most of all, having them be a lost technology that's only just been reinvented, and having their acquisition be the driving force in the story. The bit about the crystals changing the beam color to show the good or evil character of the wielder was a bit contrived, but they did say the swordsmith had devised a new way to tune them to allow that, and it made for an effective reveal.

    "T0-B1": It's Astro Boy Wars, what more can I say? As a mashup of the two, it was decent. But it's hard to judge its merits on its own when it's such an exercise in pastiche.

    "The Elder": An okay one, but surprisingly slow-paced and talky, with very little happening until the title villain shows up. The Jedi Master reminded me of Qui-Gon Jinn, right down to his Japanese voice actor sounding a lot like Liam Neeson.

    "Lop and Ochō": Possibly my favorite. A poignant story about family, love, and betrayal, bringing a tear to my eye at a couple of points. I like the designs and animation (aside from the Star Destroyer shot near the beginning). And it's wild that they chose to make the main character the same species as Jaxxon, the anthropomorphic rabbit alien from the old Marvel comics. The only drawback is that it ended too inconclusively. But hopefully that means there will be a sequel.

    "Akakiri": My least favorite. Unappealing character designs, a somewhat vague story, and a depressingly dark ending. It was a bad idea, I think, to finish the season on such a downbeat note.
     
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  16. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Premium Member

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    Thank you! I was trying to remember what/who Lop reminded me of!
     
  17. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    I do wonder if they decided to reorder the shorts right before the release date. The episode lists I saw on my TV guide apps had a different order, with "The Ninth Jedi" as the ninth short. And it's been updated with the real order, so I can't pull up what the rest of them were.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That would've been a good one to end on. Not only is there the "Ninth" angle, but it's the furthest forward in the timeline by a wide margin, and it's the most epic one.
     
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  19. Neroon

    Neroon Mod of Balance Moderator

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    Now that you two - @Crewman6 and @lightspeedbear have had your say, I suggest you back off and count this conflict as being over and done with.
     
  20. lightspeedbear

    lightspeedbear Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It was over and done with a week ago?