Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion

[Mage]

The one fan theory I allowed myself to indulge in was that Skywalker would be a title adopted by a new generation of Force wielders who have grown beyond the old dogmas of the Jedi and the Sith.

I wasn't disappointed that they didn't do this, because let's face it, my wild-assed guesses have no right to end up in a real Star Wars movie, but I did like how Rey took on the name Skywalker for herself.

EXACTLY!!!! It wasn't her claiming to suddenly belonging to a certain bloodline strong in the Force, but saying.... I trained with Luke, and I know how he came to feel about the Force, Jedi and Sith. I honor his legacy by taking his name and see that his point of view is fostered, since I share it.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm so glad that the "future Jedi are called Skywalkers instead" thing didn't happen. The point of the whole story wasn't that the Jedi Order itself was bad, just that the Jedi of the late Republic and Clone Wars eras had lost their way and had grown arrogant and complacent. Luke was wrong when he said that it was time for the Jedi to end. They didn't need to end, they needed to become what they once were. Rey helped him realize that.

I fully expected Rey to take the Skywalker name by the movie's end, but I figured it was going to be more like Luke calling her the child he never had, that it doesn't matter whose blood was in her veins because in her heart she was a Skywalker, stuff like that.

 

[USS Firefly]

And maybe she took the name Skywalker to honor Luke and Leia and she is carrying Ben's child

 

[jaime]

And I heard Mark Hamill wanted to retire from (or scale back) his role as Luke Skywalker (and his character finished with sufficient fanfare in TLJ and TRoS, histrionic fanboi tears be damned).

And we've got the contemporary Hobbit trilogy being so horribly bloated and unfocused, while Fantastic Beasts 2 was a truly dire sequel, putting the merits and problems of the SW ST more into perspective.

Fantastic Beasts 2 was really good. Just maybe a bit heavy for what people strongly identify with its ‘kids story’ roots.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm so glad that the "future Jedi are called Skywalkers instead" thing didn't happen. The point of the whole story wasn't that the Jedi Order itself was bad, just that the Jedi of the late Republic and Clone Wars eras had lost their way and had grown arrogant and complacent. Luke was wrong when he said that it was time for the Jedi to end. They didn't need to end, they needed to become what they once were. Rey helped him realize that.

I fully expected Rey to take the Skywalker name by the movie's end, but I figured it was going to be more like Luke calling her the child he never had, that it doesn't matter whose blood was in her veins because in her heart she was a Skywalker, stuff like that.

Username checks out.

 

[Ithekro]

That Rey was trained by two Skywalkers and defeated the last Skywalker (Ben Solo), while also being saved by him, gave her some weight. The final nod from the Skywalker Twins as she decides to take the same "Skywalker" seals it. Clan Skywalker/Solo more or less adopted her shortly after Han Solo picked her up on the Falcon. Leia took her in after Han's death. Luke eventually agreed to train her, and then gave his life to make sure she would be able to continue the legacy of the Jedi. Than Leia trained her. Rey managed to save Ben Solo from darkness (eventually) and in turn he saved her from death and became one with the Force. The Skywalkers and Solos accepted her into their family, and made her into one of them.

 

[thribs]

And maybe she took the name Skywalker to honor Luke and Leia and she is carrying Ben's child

From a kiss?

 

[USS Firefly]

From a kiss?

Haha and because he put his hand on her belly and put life in her with his life force. I know It's a little bit far reached, but hey It's Star Wars

 

[fireproof78]

That Rey was trained by two Skywalkers and defeated the last Skywalker (Ben Solo), while also being saved by him, gave her some weight. The final nod from the Skywalker Twins as she decides to take the same "Skywalker" seals it. Clan Skywalker/Solo more or less adopted her shortly after Han Solo picked her up on the Falcon. Leia took her in after Han's death. Luke eventually agreed to train her, and then gave his life to make sure she would be able to continue the legacy of the Jedi. Than Leia trained her. Rey managed to save Ben Solo from darkness (eventually) and in turn he saved her from death and became one with the Force. The Skywalkers and Solos accepted her into their family, and made her into one of them.

That was kind of my feeling at the end of the film.

Personally, I would have been OK if they had gone either way. I think Luke had a point, despite how depressed he was, that the Jedi had a legacy of failure, at least as of recent memory. So, if she had renamed and restructured it and called it the "Order of Skywalkers" or that sort then it would have been ok.

But, Rey being adopted in to the clan is also very much a part of the text of the trilogy, and really a part of her overall arc in discovering her identity in the larger galaxy. As much as I know that this trilogy, and Rey in particular, are controversial, I think the ST is a huge reflection of a modern day struggles.

 

[Ithekro]

I will note the contrast with the old EU on the potential future.

By the end of the Legacy era, you have what is essentially the remains of the Galactic Empire under the rule of the great-great-great granddaughter of Anakin Skywalker, Empress Marasiah Fel.
In the old Timeline, by the time of the Rise of Skywalker would be happening, Anakin would have had four grandchildren (one deceased), and these would eventually add at least three great-grandchildren to continue the Solo, Skywalker, and Fel line separately.

Meanwhile, in the current canon, Anakin has only one grandchild by blood (that we are aware of), and eventually a semi-adopted granddaughter that takes up the family name once the Sith are defeated. No telling what Rey will do exactly. Probably pass on what she has learned. Rebuild the Jedi in some way. But this time the Sith are gone or at least dormant again. The Republic is in pieces and the remains of the Empire are in a similar or worse state. The Galaxy can now start over again.

 

[USS Firefly]

I will note the contrast with the old EU on the potential future.

By the end of the Legacy era, you have what is essentially the remains of the Galactic Empire under the rule of the great-great-great granddaughter of Anakin Skywalker, Empress Marasiah Fel.
In the old Timeline, by the time of the Rise of Skywalker would be happening, Anakin would have had four grandchildren (one deceased), and these would eventually add at least three great-grandchildren to continue the Solo, Skywalker, and Fel line separately.

Meanwhile, in the current canon, Anakin has only one grandchild by blood (that we are aware of), and eventually a semi-adopted granddaughter that takes up the family name once the Sith are defeated. No telling what Rey will do exactly. Probably pass on what she has learned. Rebuild the Jedi in some way. But this time the Sith are gone or at least dormant again. The Republic is in pieces and the remains of the Empire are in a similar or worse state. The Galaxy can now start over again.

Wasn't the galaxy in the same state after ROTJ?
That was one of the reasons I am disappointed in the ST. We are at the same place as we were after ROTJ.

I think the biggest problem with the Jedi order was Yoda. I think It is never a good idea to have a leader for life( except if It's me ), especially if that leader lives for hundreds of years.
And I think that people are too harsh on the Jedi order, they did good things for what, 25 thousand years? And apparently they only because arrogant and lost there way ten or twenty years before AOTC.

 

[Ithekro]

There is a great difference at the end of the ST and the end of the OT. The mechanisms of the Old Republic and Empire were still in place for the most part at the end of the OT. The Senators in hiding and the leadership of the Rebel Alliance restart the Republic using what was left behind by the Empire and what they remember from before the Senate was disbanded.

This time around, the Galactic Government was completely destroyed by the First Order, and with both it and the Final Order's fall, the Galaxy is a clean slate. The remaining Free Planets can now decide what they want to do going forwards. The remains of both the Republic and Empire, as governments, have been destroyed. Star Killer Base destroyed the capital of the New Republic, and the Resistance is not like the old Alliance. It does not have the shadow government and Republic Senate in exile sort of thing going on with it. Lessons can be learned from what the New Republic did wrong and what the Empire did right. Maybe the Galaxy will remake the Republic. Maybe they will build smaller regional states, and at best have an alliance between some that are friendly with each other, while others remain out of it. Some worlds may still embrace the New Order and maintain their own style of governance away form the others. The rules are gone now. While Lando managed to gather a huge fleet to smite Palpatine's forces, they likely did so because they knew if they didn't stop him when he was vulnerable, any one, or all of their planets would be destroyed. But said fleet does not mean their is a stable government to back that up. Those ships will all go back to their system defense force and wherever else they came from.

As for the Jedi. The Emperor wasn't as able to hunt down the Force Sensitives these last three decades. Luke had some, but they are gone. The First Order had a few, and the Sith had loyalists. But the rest are just out there. Maybe they will come to Rey. Maybe Rey will come to them. Either way, she will likely use what Luke and Leia taught her along with the knowledge of the old Jedi texts, to remake the Jedi Order based on its roots and what things were proven to be their undoing may be tossed out. We don't know when the Jedi lost their way. Perhaps the new High Republic series of media might go into what changed between winning their wars with the Sith and the start of the Clone Wars.

 

[Campe]

Fantastic Beasts 2 was really good. Just maybe a bit heavy for what people strongly identify with its ‘kids story’ roots.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen it but I recall I found it to be a mess of a film. Too much going on. Far too much connecting dots and checking boxes as opposed to creating a coherent plot. The darkness of the story though? Really didn’t bother me. The Harry Potter series definitely got just as dark. If not darker.

 

[jaime]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen it but I recall I found it to be a mess of a film. Too much going on. Far too much connecting dots and checking boxes as opposed to creating a coherent plot. The darkness of the story though? Really didn’t bother me. The Harry Potter series definitely got just as dark. If not darker.

I am not a fan of making things dark for the sake of it, and I would have agreed with you if I had been asked about halfway through the film...but the ending, with its prophecy of things like the rise of Nazism, really made the film interesting. It danced a fine line, and only saw it once, but I remember coming away being fairly impressed. Especially as it’s really not anything really to do with ‘fantastic beasts’ but had to hang onto it because of the book. It’s weirdly like ‘what if Gerald Durrell became a spy’ which has some appeal. Decently successful as a prequel, but also the stirrings of fandoms rejection of Rowling a la Star Wars and Lucas. But then...I rather liked what Lucas was trying to do in his prequels too. They are both more creative than the people that did sequels to their respective works.

 

[Campe]

I am not a fan of making things dark for the sake of it, and I would have agreed with you if I had been asked about halfway through the film...but the ending, with its prophecy of things like the rise of Nazism, really made the film interesting.

Again, just my opinion, but an intriguing ending does not make a great movie. It’s why I find popular franchise entries like ESB and TWOK good... but ultimately overrated. They are decent, sometimes even stumbling into good or greatness. But they don’t work well on their own. TWOK is a revenge film with a sacrifice of a character that is heart-wrenching, but had Spock not died, would it be as well-regraded? Or would it just be a cheesy sequel to a TV episode? ESB Is probably a more apt example though. On its own, ESB is incomplete. Again, yes, the Vader/Anakin twist is amazing but the movie works better in hindsight when ROTJ is there and you know the rest of the story. It is incomplete otherwise. As an individual movie, viewed in a vacuum, it simply does not work having no real ending.

The same thing can be said about the second FB movie. The initial movie was just really the prologue. It introduced the characters and their relationships and while not perfect, was quite charming. The second film MIGHT be considered someday to be universally praised, at the moment, it’s been more or less panned by critics and fans. And in my opinion, for good reason. It is simply moving the chess pieces. I’m not sure if there was a change in plan for the number of FB films but the second entry really, to me, feels like too much and not enough at the same time. A big aspect of that is Queenie, who really was an integral part of the story and the group of heroes in the first film, who ultimately feels as though she’s shoved to the side, which brings her to the dark side (so to speak). It felt forced and completely unnatural based on the characters and their relationship in the first movie.

Honestly, in my mind, setting up the Nazi connection is absolutely fascinating, and probably the most intriguing part of the movie. But that was near the end and while sets a fascinating stage for further entries (if they really materialize) doesn’t excuse the meandering 2 hours that preceded that move. I mean, it is possible to build a standalone story at the same time not making the story feel incomplete.

Again, just my opinion.

 

[jaime]

Again, just my opinion, but an intriguing ending does not make a great movie. It’s why I find popular franchise entries like ESB and TWOK good... but ultimately overrated. They are decent, sometimes even stumbling into good or greatness. But they don’t work well on their own. TWOK is a revenge film with a sacrifice of a character that is heart-wrenching, but had Spock not died, would it be as well-regraded? Or would it just be a cheesy sequel to a TV episode? ESB Is probably a more apt example though. On its own, ESB is incomplete. Again, yes, the Vader/Anakin twist is amazing but the movie works better in hindsight when ROTJ is there and you know the rest of the story. It is incomplete otherwise. As an individual movie, viewed in a vacuum, it simply does not work having no real ending.

The same thing can be said about the second FB movie. The initial movie was just really the prologue. It introduced the characters and their relationships and while not perfect, was quite charming. The second film MIGHT be considered someday to be universally praised, at the moment, it’s been more or less panned by critics and fans. And in my opinion, for good reason. It is simply moving the chess pieces. I’m not sure if there was a change in plan for the number of FB films but the second entry really, to me, feels like too much and not enough at the same time. A big aspect of that is Queenie, who really was an integral part of the story and the group of heroes in the first film, who ultimately feels as though she’s shoved to the side, which brings her to the dark side (so to speak). It felt forced and completely unnatural based on the characters and their relationship in the first movie.

Honestly, in my mind, setting up the Nazi connection is absolutely fascinating, and probably the most intriguing part of the movie. But that was near the end and while sets a fascinating stage for further entries (if they really materialize) doesn’t excuse the meandering 2 hours that preceded that move. I mean, it is possible to build a standalone story at the same time not making the story feel incomplete.

Again, just my opinion.

I pretty much agree, but from what I remember about FB2 is that ending crystallised a *lot* of stuff, even Grindelwald in a way that other sequels-cum-midquels didn’t. (Even empire, which also had the advantage of knowing it was a middle film going in, or the Star Wars prequels that always knew their ending) It suddenly crystallised around people’s fear of what is to come, even a fear turning them essentially to evil in the hope of heading off an even bigger evil. That I found very interesting, especially when that period of history when viewed now cannot escape what is coming, and when the Harry Potter universe has its own inevitable future mapped out too. It was something that took those pressures and made it work for it, which is something other prequels/ middle segments trip over a lot. (I said DSC would and DSC did as well.)

 

[JD]

By the end of the Legacy era, you have what is essentially the remains of the Galactic Empire under the rule of the great-great-great granddaughter of Anakin Skywalker, Empress Marasiah Fel.
In the old Timeline, by the time of the Rise of Skywalker would be happening, Anakin would have had four grandchildren (one deceased), and these would eventually add at least three great-grandchildren to continue the Solo, Skywalker, and Fel line separately.

I thought it turned out the Legacy era Fels were not part of the Skywalker/Solo bloodline? I haven't read beyond the fifth collection of Legacy, but I thought I read on the Wookiepedia a while back that they were actually descended from a different female Force user, and not Jaina Solo like everyone expected.

Decently successful as a prequel, but also the stirrings of fandoms rejection of Rowling a la Star Wars and Lucas. But then...I rather liked what Lucas was trying to do in his prequels too. They are both more creative than the people that did sequels to their respective works.

Nobody besides Rowling has done followups to the Harry Potter books/movies. She co-wrote the script for the play, and she is writing all of the Fantastic Beasts movies herself.

 

[jaime]

I thought it turned out the Legacy era Fels were not part of the Skywalker/Solo bloodline? I haven't read beyond the fifth collection of Legacy, but I thought I read on the Wookiepedia a while back that they were actually descended from a different female Force user, and not Jaina Solo like everyone expected.

Nobody besides Rowling has done followups to the Harry Potter books/movies. She co-wrote the script for the play, and she is writing all of the Fantastic Beasts movies herself.

I am not one hundred percent she did too much on that play frankly. Whatever the byline says. For a start she intentionally wiped out time turners precisely to prevent the nonsense that play indulges in. Either way, it wasn’t one hundred percent her writing. XD

 

[Ithekro]

Marasiah Fel was a distant cousin of Ania Solo. Marasiah's father is supposedly to be the grandson of Jagged Fel and Jaina Solo, It was never confirmed since the Legends books stopped before Jaina had any children, though she did marry Jagged Fel near the end of the Legends era.

We know Ben Skywalker had children at some point, otherwise there would be no Cade Skywalker. We know Allana Solo had children at some point because of Ania Solo. We suspect Jaina Solo had children because of the Fel Dynasty being Force Sensative and being cousins with the Solos.

 

[JD]

Oh, OK. I thought I remembered reading on Wookiepedia or somewhere that an issue of Legacy revealed that Jagged Fel ended up marrying a different Force sensitive woman than Jaina. Guess I remembered wrong.