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Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie.


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Compared to most fan theories, Ozzel being a traitor is pretty straightforward and doesn't rely on any expanded universe material to make sense. It's just a theory based on his behavior & facial expressions that kinda fits the facts.

Not being Force-sensitive, unlike Vader, Ozzel had no reason to believe that the Rebels were on Hoth, and he had several reasons, which he cited or attempted to cite, to believe otherwise. Ozzel wasn't the only Imperial officer who lacked Vader's clairvoyance. Remember those Imperial officers who were sure that the Falcon had been destroyed in the asteroid field? Same deal.

Another possibility: Ozzel was covering his ass. He was more afraid of the repercussions of being blamed if it turned out that the Rebels weren't on Hoth. Hence, "I want proof, not leads." By mildly objecting to Vader's insistence that the Rebels are there but still following Vader's orders to go there, he tries to have it both ways. If they are there, then he did his duty. If not, then he can say, "I told you so." (Though it's probably best to say that politely in Vader's presence.)

I'm also wondering if he was just trying to sabotage Captain Piett. Perhaps Ozzel is aware of this ambitious, up-and-coming officer and feels threatened by him so he wants to make sure that there aren't any successful operations that Piett can take credit for. We know that Imperial officers aren't immune to office politics. Rogue One showed us some pretty clear backbiting & power plays between Tarkin & Krenic.

Sure it is. It's the only way Vader's criticism makes sense. On the face of it, the explanation that "[Ozzel] felt that surprise was wiser" seems far more sensible. We've never seen any indication that ships in Star Wars are especially more detectable when emerging from hyperspace than they are any other time, and it seems weird that a half-dozen Star Destroyers, some of the least-stealthy ships around, would be expected to sneak up on anything, and there's no reason intuitively to think that ships appearing out of nowhere at close range would give the Rebels more warning than ships approaching from a great distance.

Reminds me of the Culture novels by Iain M. Banks. In those, the ships talk about often having to sacrifice speed for stealth or vice versa. The idea is that a "crash stop" is immediately detectable by the other ships in the area and any element of surprise is gone, whereas gradually slowing down gives the advantage of the ship being undetectable but the disadvantage that it may well be too late for them to do anything by the time they get there.

(I realize that Star Wars is a completely different universe with different rules but I just can't pass up the opportunity to talk about the Culture! :D )

Back to The Last Jedi, a minor point and it's become such a pervasive sci-fi cliche that it's barely worth mentioning: Apparently, even when you break a Star Destroyer in half, the artificial gravity just keeps on tickin'! Of course it does! :D
 
I finally got around to watching the movie again. For some reason, the long sublight pursuit just doesn't bother me at all. :shrug:

I guess they could have included one little throwaway line about not being able to do a lightspeed jump ahead of the resistance ships, just to prevent all the bellyaching that's been going on about this.

Kor
 
It's as if Abrams did write it! Are Johnson and Abrams perhaps somehow two parts of the same entity?

I guess they could have included one little throwaway line about not being able to do a lightspeed jump ahead of the resistance ships, just to prevent all the bellyaching that's been going on about this.

...but why would that be the case? Why would the FO suddenly not be able to do a jump ahead?
 
So if Han survived TFA, and made the trip with Chewie, and Rey, could he have convinced Luke to come back? Been pondering this question more than I should.

Good question. I do feel like Luke comes across as a man who craves redemption and forgiveness but doesn't believe that it's possible. If anyone could convince him that Ben falling to the Dark Side wasn't his fault and that he needed to snap out of it, it would be Han. As the pragmatic big brother, I think Han could connect with Luke on the issue in a way that no one else could. On the other hand, once Kylo Ren killed Han, that basically cemented Luke's conviction in his own failure.
 
Good question. I do feel like Luke comes across as a man who craves redemption and forgiveness but doesn't believe that it's possible. If anyone could convince him that Ben falling to the Dark Side wasn't his fault and that he needed to snap out of it, it would be Han. As the pragmatic big brother, I think Han could connect with Luke on the issue in a way that no one else could. On the other hand, once Kylo Ren killed Han, that basically cemented Luke's conviction in his own failure.
I think this is a fair assessment of their relationship as well as Luke's own guilt. Not only did Ben fall to the Dark Side, not only did the First Order rise under his watch, not only did he fail to revive the Jedi Order, but his own student and nephew killed his best friend.
 
Disney just officially congratulated Disney for for beating the box office record previously held by this Disney Film.

Way to go Disney!!
 
Good point. If Disney doesn't get this nonsense out of it's system by the time it owns the Avatar franchise, they're gonna be patting themselves on the back two or three times a year forever.
 
B-

It was okay.

Some random thoughts...

I'll be honest, I don't care about a single one of the leads in the new Star Wars movies. I honestly gave more of a damn about Rose than Poe, Finn and Rey. Probably because Rose felt like an actual character, while the other three felt like they were just designated as heroes and love interests (I felt more invested in Finn and Rose than Finn and Rey). The original trilogy was hardly an example of good characters, but they still felt more fleshed out and "human" than the new three.

I also didn't give a damn about the action scenes, since they were so ridiculously over-the-top that I just found them boring. To be fair to The Last Jedi, this is a problem I have with all post-90's action movies.

Snoke was a tremendous anti-climax and I didn't feel remotely threatening.

Luke's development wasn't entirely the most believable (due to how he tried and succeeded in turning his father), but then again there was a large gap between the original trilogy and The Last Jedi. The development of wanting to see the Jedi and the Sith come to an end felt pretty natural, though I'm sure die-hard Star Wars fans wouldn't like it. To be honest Luke felt like the best written character in the movie.

Despite all that, despite this movie feeling like bad fanfiction, I still enjoyed it. More so than the prequel movies certainly, despite them having more meat to them. It was a forgettable popcorn movie, something I'll watch once, enjoy and then never see again.
 
Disney just officially congratulated Disney for for beating the box office record previously held by this Disney Film.

Way to go Disney!!
They might both be owned by Disney, but their still separate entities, run by different people.
 
I think this is a fair assessment of their relationship as well as Luke's own guilt. Not only did Ben fall to the Dark Side, not only did the First Order rise under his watch, not only did he fail to revive the Jedi Order, but his own student and nephew killed his best friend.

Luke was not responsible for the rise of the First Order. Ben gave in to evil on his own accord. The only thing Luke is guilty of was his urge to kill his nephew. Ben didn't have to respond to this by killing most of Luke's apprentices and aligning himself with Snoke. He could have returned home and informed his parents of what Luke almost did. So . . . no. I refuse to blame Luke for Kylo Ren's embrace of evil.

As for Luke's failure to revive the Jedi Order . . . so what? How is that a lack of moral responsibility? The idea that Luke should be censured for failing to revive the Jedi Order makes no damn sense to me. He could have done it . . . or not.
 
I'm not sure I agree, LJones. If Luke's mission and goal was to become a jedi, then his responsibility was to rebuild the order, and safeguard the republic.

He doesn't appear to have done anything for 20 years, then finally tried to rebuild the order, which was short-lived. The "Republic" seems to have followed a similar path to Luke, and gave up.

Then, Luke went and blamed the Jedi(of old. of all time)for his own failures.
 
As for Luke's failure to revive the Jedi Order . . . so what? How is that a lack of moral responsibility? The idea that Luke should be censured for failing to revive the Jedi Order makes no damn sense to me. He could have done it . . . or not.
That was Yoda's final command. Yoda even reminds him of it in TLJ.

I don't blame Luke for Ben's turn to evil. But, the whole running from the problem due to failure, rather than owning his mistake is Luke's responsibility.

Also, not to be too pedantic, but Luke's absence leads to the First Order rising. The opening crawls says as much:

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.

If the Jedi are to be the guardians of peace and justice, and Luke is a Jedi, isn't that his responsibility?
 
How Rian Johnson decided to work around the case of "sequelitis" JJ and Kennedy gave Star Wars with TFA, is the most frustrating thing about TLJ.

This video was an interesting critique of the film's issue. Spend 2 hours and 30 minutes subverting the elements in the film franchise and then at the last minute reinforce those same elements.

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But why?
 
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