Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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But feeling someone you're close to die isn't that much of a leap, given that we've seen things like that before: Obi-Wan feeling the death of all the Alderanians, Yoda feeling Anakin's anger, Leia knowing where Luke is on Bespin or knowing that Luke's safe in RotJ.
But what they did with the Force powers in TLJ (even beginning in TFA with just recently Force-aware Rey almost defeating a trained Kylo) borders on the ridiculous, certainly surprising but not in a good way. They turn the Force into some kind of magical thing, sort of a new Harry Potter-like feature, even saving you from the vacuum of space. You even no longer need any kind of training to wield it like a pro. Even the previously established wunderkind Anakin needed some kind of training. So every somehow established fact gets thrown out the window. And to think that the impression that the sequel-trilogy only uses force-prodigies with little to no training could have been avoided by one sentence that Leia had some training.
And not to mention that the space-float scene just looked awfully ridiculous, bad CGI... if it had been well done at least... in German we have an expression, "fremdschämen"... when I saw that scene I kind of wished my seat would swallow me up, it was just embarrassingly poorly done.
These too are my feelings about Rey's use of the force. In TFA, I was able to give it a pass simply because we knew nothing of her backstory. Maybe she had been trained in some way as a child but after being left on Jakku, those skills were never used and eventually were forgotten. Only after being exposed to Kylo's mind probe she kind of remembered how to use it again. Kind of like riding a bike I suppose.
Regarding her defeating Kylo; He'd just been shot in the gut by Chewie's bowcaster. The same weapon the blew a stormtrooper 10' in the air. He probably wasn't firing on all cylinders what with all the internal bleeding, ruptured intestines or what have you. Again I was able to give it a pass.
Now that we know she's very likely never had any training in her entire life. Her parents were drunkards and sold her for a few credits, so it's not like Rey's had any instruction in anything other than looking for scrap. I really don't see how she's able to do what we've been shown on screen. If one wants to compare Luke to a how a real human would react (him curling up in the fetal position after everything went to shit), then the same needs to be applied to Rey. Jesus, even in fiction, expanding on Claudia's magic statement, Harry Potter had to have some training before he took on Voldemort and the Death Eaters.
It was pretty 'magical' in effect to start with, if you want to frame things that way. The mechanics of Force pull/push should in theory be transferable to space, I don't see why the same principle wouldn't apply. Plo Koon used the Force in space in The Clone Wars.
{Rebels spoiler below}
Also, we've already seen something not unlike Leia's TLJ space incident when Kanan did it in Rebels.
Isn't it at least possible that Leia received some training from Luke at some point before he left?
bigglesworth said:
I thought it was fairly clear in TFA that she had not had any training.
Kylo does seems more powerful in the force than with his sabre but he was also injured after being shot in the gut. J.J panned the camera directly to the wound (showing him bleeding on the floor) and had Kylo visibly stumble because of it...Directors are not responsible for your lack of attention.
Have you seen the OT? never mind the PT that attempted to put some sort of science behind it, the Force has always been MAGIC, they move objects with their hands FFS.
Luke had virtually no training time with Yoda before he went to face Vader and even then his training before the events of ROTJ was minimal compared to the years and years that Jedi would of gotten back in the days of the order. Why is it ok for Luke but not Rey? The Force as described by Yoda in the OT, clearly seems to be a more instinctive thing at times and Rey is powerful with the energy known as the Force. Despite all of that, her powers were no match for Snoke and even Kylo in TLJ seemed to match her when they force fought for the sabre.
Also the sabre is just a sword at the end of the day and Rey was very handy with her boom-stick in TFA, so the basics are the same. Finn was the same, since his training clearly covered the use of those electric staff things (what are they called?) so he was able to use the Sabre though with no Force to guide his movements, he lacked Rey ability.
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She pulled the lightsaber to her, a la Luke at the beginning of ESB.
Although she had also already had Kylo use telekinesis against her more than once (and he was also trying to grab the lightsaber at that very moment), so she’s still distinctly behind Luke - who really did just pull the ability from nowhere.
She arguably used a bit of force sensitivity when she managed to slam doors on top of the aliens trying to eat Finn (‘What happened?’ ‘Lucky?’j But the movie just sort of leaves that for you to muddle on.
Although she had also already had Kylo use telekinesis against her more than once (and he was also trying to grab the lightsaber at that very moment), so she’s still distinctly behind Luke - who really did just pull the ability from nowhere.
She arguably used a bit of force sensitivity when she managed to slam doors on top of the aliens trying to eat Finn (‘What happened?’ ‘Lucky?’j But the movie just sort of leaves that for you to muddle on.
The Force is magic. That's been the point since the very beginning, magic vs. technology. Why did Obi-Wan sense Alderaan's death? The only connection he had was Bail, at best. Rey at least had time with Han, time with Luke to be familiar with them and possibly having abilities to growing from her mind connection with Kylo, learning things such as the mind trick, and other basics.
Also, the idea that she can't wield a weapon when we see her kicking down thugs with little issue is odd to me.
Oh, and what saber training did Luke have in ESB? And yet he goes up against a Sith Lord. Huh, weird.
Not that I'm aware of. But, that certainly fit in to Yoda's philosophy...until AOTC and ROTS.
Ah, that’s right: he said he would teach Luke to defend and be a guardian, not be a warrior.
*watches Luke mount an assault Jabba’s palace*
It apparently took a while for that message to sink in.
Although pure defence is far and away what Luke was doing at the end of TLJ. Hmmm.
*watches Luke mount an assault Jabba’s palace*
It apparently took a while for that message to sink in.
Although pure defence is far and away what Luke was doing at the end of TLJ. Hmmm.
Yeah, much to learn Luke still had.
A bit less of the "Knight" and a little more "Jedi," eh?
I'm talking about a reference of what she learned between trilogies. That was necessary to justify any Force power (especially surviving an explosion / the vacuum of space)--at least to show that she tried to learn more than just sensing a call for help, or the death of someone.
Luke had more training than you're giving him credit for--
- In ANH, he begins training to not only use the lightsaber, but to "stretch out with his feelings" in seeing the remote with his eyes covered, and focusing through the Force to target the Death Star exhaust port.
- At the beginning of ESB, he had progressed to some degree--enough to will his weapon in the Wampa cave, but he was still raw--believable at that point. There's been debate (over the decades) if he was using the Force to any degree when singlehandedly taking down the AT-AT.
- The Yoda sequence is where he actually spent time receiving a very intense form of training (based on how long the Falcon had to limp along to Bespin sans a functioning hyperdrive, and a reasonable assumption of the time it takes for Luke to make certain advances in ability). Remember, when he arrived, he was not some power "out of nowhere" character. He had some experience, but he still had to be put through the paces of spiritual, physical, and psychological training to make those believable advances seen in the film, so it justified his ability to stand up to Vader. That did not pop out of thin air, which is why Luke's arc is pretty flawless in that things never happen for no reason, or as many believed, "just because the producer wants it that way" as in the case of Rey.
- Regarding the training time enjoyed by the PT Jedi, we must also remember that Luke was hidden and eventually recruited into the cause for a reason--he was thought to be the best, last chance to face both Vader and the Emperor, but unlike Rey, he had to learn how to do things, (wheich is what we were made to think of any Jedi or apprentice) and did not start out Force choking, using mind tricks, lifting heavy objects or successfully wielding the lightsaber.
There's a deleted scene with a bit of saber that didn't make it into the film.
Hela said:
I don't know what prevented that rathtar that was dragging him around from eating him during all that time ( Plot Armor by way of the Will of the Force, perhaps? ) but it wasn't Rey.
The amputation-via-bulkhead was Rey.
I’m fine with Finn being the only person in the scene to grab at walls and shit, slowing his inevitable dragging towards the creatures mouth. Will of the Writer, or not. There’s already one Bodhi/tentacle-like scene in Star Wars. I can live without two.
Yeah, but unlike every other kill, it just carries him around the ship for some reason.
Creatures do save prey for later or taking it back to its nest.
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