Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Well she is not wrong
I don't entirely agree on all her thoughts, but the overall points are mostly on target. I don't think the problem with TLJ wasn't so much the "direction of the franchise" but the poor handling of the tonally inconsistent humour, the focus on "subversion" over satisfaction, the expanded but wasted cast, the under-considered implications of specific changes to technological assumptions about the universe, and the questionable plotting. I may have minor issues with specific developments, but for me it was mostly just the scripting and execution of it.
While we don't see the Knights of Ren in TLJ, we learn who they are and where they came from.
Also, aside from a Force Vision that was never meant to be seen as depicting literal events across the board, they're absent from and unimportant to TFA too.
She sounds like a Fox News talking head.
I guess it's a fair statement to say "wait for the trilogy to be over before you judge it." Problem is, I feel like we are getting 3 movies that are somewhat tied together, without a plan. I feel like JJ is running it like he ran Lost, which was a terrific show, but they had no plan and no clue where they were going. In the end, Lost's ending was unsatisfying.
But again, the theme of this trilogy seems to be to undo the real trilogy, and to give terrible endings for the heroes of that trilogy. I feel what they did with Han and Luke are inexcusable, and the villain just isn't that good.
The Emperor and Vader were brilliant villains. I expect better from Star Wars. Star Wars needs a Hans Gruber level villain. Not a whiny hipster.
I don't know what Episode IX can do to make it right.
That's far fetched. An actor in a movie being told that he can't badmouth a movie is not far fetched. In fact, I would be willing to bet that Hamill is contractually obligated to promote the hell out of that movie, and speaking his mind absolutely violated that. So yeah, Disney legal talked to him.
Regarding DC movies, as bad as they were, you didn't see actors talking them down a week after the movie premiered.
That's just not what they do. DC movies don't need actors badmouthing them. The stories and scripts take care of that.
While I suspect the same, it's only fair to point out that this is pretty much how Lucas ran the OT as well. No matter how much he tried to retcon that fact by trying to make us believe he had the whole story in his head all along.
Don't tell me he knew Leia was Luke's sis when she kissed him in ESB.
Don't tell me he knew Leia was Luke's sis when she kissed him in ESB.
George Lucas knew. Irvin Kershner didn’t.
Except Abrams didn't run LOST. That was Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. All Abrams did was help create the show, direct the pilot, and co-write the season 3 premiere teleplay. Whatever your grievances about how the show was run and how it ended had little to do with Abrams himself.
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No it’s not. Except...
1: In this case he attached a gifset of the original interview in that very tweet, and spread it to all his followers. And again, he was taking part in a discussion that was encouraging people to watch it.
If Hamill is being pressured to distract from his supposed badmouthing, then Disney are apparently very unobservant micro managers.
2: All this posting about Hamill’s comments, did you ever actually watch the interview where he supposably ‘bad mouthed’ the movie? There hasn’t been any backtracking on it - that was where he referred to the movie great. There is no new and ‘Disney ordered’ opinion.
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It wasn’t "one interview". Mark Hamill’s disappointment about Luke’s (and Han’s) treatment was in dozens and dozens of interviews and public appearances going all the way back to 2015. They literally are too many to post here.
Try me.
Direct sources only (so no fucking videos unless it’s an interview in its entirety). Strictly complaints about the quality of TLJ (because what the fuck does Han have to do with anything). No bullshit like trying to spin neutral descriptors such as ‘unexpected’ into an actual criticism.
Oh, and make it from 2015. I’m genuinely curious if you can cash that particular cheque.
After all, if it happens to be true, then Disney Legal are even more shit at their jobs then I previously suggested. They’ve apparently been trying and failing to ‘gag’ Hamill for three fucking years.
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Sure. It’s called YouTube. I assure you it’s as direct as it gets.
From what I've read over the years, he's always been upfront about just how vague his idea for the larger story was. That is to say he did have a general fuzzy notion about the backstory and where things could go, but he only ever tackled it in any serious detail as each film was made.
For example, since at least the production of RotJ he'd had it in his head that Vader ended up in the suit after a fight with Kenobi near a lava pit. The exact circumstances and context weren't nailed down until they made RotS, but he had the general concept in mind. See also: Anakin being born into slavery, the whole story beginning with a Jedi and a Padawan coming to the aid of a blockaded planet and greed and corruption being the downfall of the Republic.
Don't tell me he knew Leia was Luke's sis when she kissed him in ESB.
So far as I'm aware, no, he did not. IIRC at that point the notion was that the "Another Skywalker" character was someone else out there (usually still a female character though) who would be the focus of the third trilogy.
Again though, the concept of a female as the hero and even twins is an idea that goes back to the early drafts. Indeed if you look at some of the logo/key art created by Ralph McQuarrie during pre-production (the one with the bush-baby Chewie) you may note that "Luke" in this image is female. For about five minutes there just before casting started in earnest, he'd decided that the protagonist would be a female before switching it back again. I think she also shows up in some of the storyboards and other concept art (the one on the bluff, overlooking Mos Eisley leaps to mind!)
Likewise I think the "Princess" character that would eventually become Leia dropped in and out of the story as various points in development, starting with the early drafts. Sometimes she was vital to the plot, other times she wasn't there at all and at others she was just a two dimensional prop meant to complicate matters and for the hero to (quite unconvincingly) fall in love with. For what it's worth, that last version seemed to end up being the basis for Anakin & Padme's dynamic in AotC.
Anyway, in defence of that retroactively creepy kiss: the intent of that scene is clearly not meant to be romantic. Indeed the implication is that Han is the only person in that room who thinks it's genuine. Even Luke clearly knows it's a wind up. Yeah, still a little bit creepy but it could have been *so* much worse if they'd played the romantic rivalry thing straight.
I think we're all aware of that.
I'm surprised the smiley after my sentence wasn't enough to dissuade you from writing a novella here.
You know...It’s not often that you see someone shoot themselves in the foot with a bazooka.
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