Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[EnderAKH]

I loved the movie but I must admit, upon reflection, one of my problems with the casino side story was it didn't feel alien enough. Everyone was in clothes close to tuxedos, the decor was not too far off what a high end casino would be, they even had pretty standard horse racing, albeit with alien horse substitutes. It just felt too on the nose. I've felt that way before, for example with the diner in AotC, but it was never this prominent in the story.

 

[ALF]

I don't agree. The bombers/accompanying forces died because Leia didn't recall them more insistently. And Luke? Still don't quite know why he died at that moment. Would have liked some physical consequences for that force projection, like draining him etc. But the way I see it, he just decided he was at peace and passed. That's not really on Poe.

What would telling him have achieved?
When he did find out about her plan, he staged a mutiny. Telling him earlier wouldn't have lead to a much bette reaction.

Everybody, including Luke, died because of Poe.

Perhaps it was in the TLJ visual dictionary that I read The Resistance has a policy to keep them from being eliminated in one shot, therefore putting all their troopers on board the Raddus made them a target that worked against the policy. Having read this after the film, I was gobsmacked to realize that the ace pilot of The Resistance, Poe, didn't seem to know about this protocol that was clearly designed for exactly the situation they were in: potential total elimination. He threw a fit when he saw the transports being fueled up (best sound effect in the film, by the way) and doesn't seem to grasp the strategy of target saturation.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

First I must say I'm not a Star Wars fan at all. I find the movies entertaining, but they never conquered my heart like ST:TNG did.

I liked The Force Awakens because it's so similar to the very first movie I watched as a kid that it triggered nostalgia in me. But The Last Jedi didn't give me that feeling at all.

I find it rather inconsistent, illogical and too manichean (like most SW movies). It's extremely beautiful and theatrical, but it has huge scenaristic flaws IMHO. And now that I'm a trekkie, I find it difficult to buy the "Good versus Bad" plot of the SW universe. Star Trek is a lot about nuances, diplomatic discussions, complex politics ; whereas Star Wars always describes the world like it there were only Good and Bad people...

The characters are disappointing, too. We never go in depth in who they are. Maybe it's because I spent nearly 75 hours so far with TNG's crew members, but I find it hard to empathize with anyone in the SW movies, especially The Last Jedi....They feel more like archetypes than actual people.

 

[JD]

Now I do want Lt. Connix could be revealed to be Leia's secret daughter. I know that's unlikely (either J.J., or Billie Lourd wouldn't be up for it), I know it's a silly one-trick rehash ROTJ and ROTS, and I know it's against what TLJ said in regards to the unimportance of bloodlines, and that Star Wars has focused on Skywalkers way too much already. But screw all of that.

I didn't know who Billie Lourd was back when I was watching TFA, and I had barely noticed Lt. Connix then (it's weird that I do remember her lines, yet didn't realise she was there), so when she appeared on screen in TLJ I was... absolutely shocked, and every time they interacted I was as moved as when Leia nearly died. And I also couldn't shake the feeling that the Lt. and Leia were somehow related in every scene where they faced each other, like when the General put an end to that silly mutiny of theirs, or when I was trying to figure out what was Connix' role in it and where she stood.

So call it ridiculous, but I left the theatre convinced Connix was a Skywalker. Or someone Leia had cared for. Or someone who would in some capacity succeed her. And I seem unable to convince myself otherwise.

I know it's not happening, but it just feels right, now when Carrie Fisher is not here. I miss her so much. She's just so awesome, as a person, and General Organa was so unexpectedly good in TLJ...

I don't know if I'd want her to be Leia's daughter, but I could see her being established as a protegee of Leia's who was like a daughter. I wouldn't mind seeing her take on a bigger role, possibly as Poe's second in command or if Leia is alive offscreen then she could be her liaison with Poe. I think having her speak for Leia could be a nice way to recognize and pay tribute to their real world relationship.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I don't agree. The bombers/accompanying forces died because Leia didn't recall them more insistently. And Luke? Still don't quite know why he died at that moment. Would have liked some physical consequences for that force projection, like draining him etc. But the way I see it, he just decided he was at peace and passed. That's not really on Poe.

The only reason the First Order knew about the ships fleeing to that old Rebel base was because of Poe's and Finn's stupid plan.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Hamill says Last Jedi is an all time great movie.

Hamill clearly got a talking to from Disney legal.

 

[mos6507]

What is the payoff of Episode IX? What can happen that we haven't seen before? What can we look forward to?

I know this isn't going to be a satisfying answer, but everything that bothers you about it feels like the point.

Again, I think this is a meta-trilogy. It's still structured in a positive-negative-climax sort of way, but at the meta level. JJ is about feel-good fanservice (which is junkfood). Rian was about deconstruction (which leaves us with a depressing nihilism). Episode IX should reveal the ultimate "point". We're not there yet.

 

[JD]

The Star Wars Facebook page has posted a wonderful defense of Rose and the Canto Bight sequence (link is to a CBR article about the post). This actually sums up my feeling on both pretty well.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

The Canto Bight:
- Gave us amazing Rose Tico and Kelly Marie Tran.
- Showed us who the Resistance is fighting for.
- Put weight, in a literal detour, of how utterly useless Poe's mutiny was, before putting everyone at jeopardy.
- Gave us the second best Mark Hamil role of the year.
- Showed us a part of the Star Wars universe you didn't expect to see in a Star Wars film.
- Gave us more Finn.

I mean. You could mistake scenes in Rogue One with scenes from Alien and Hawaii Five-0. Why not mistake some scenes from TLJ with Casino Royale?

 

[GeekUSACarl]

First I must say I'm not a Star Wars fan at all. I find the movies entertaining, but they never conquered my heart like ST:TNG did.

I liked The Force Awakens because it's so similar to the very first movie I watched as a kid that it triggered nostalgia in me. But The Last Jedi didn't give me that feeling at all.

I find it rather inconsistent, illogical and too manichean (like most SW movies). It's extremely beautiful and theatrical, but it has huge scenaristic flaws IMHO. And now that I'm a trekkie, I find it difficult to buy the "Good versus Bad" plot of the SW universe. Star Trek is a lot about nuances, diplomatic discussions, complex politics ; whereas Star Wars always describes the world like it there were only Good and Bad people...

The characters are disappointing, too. We never go in depth in who they are. Maybe it's because I spent nearly 75 hours so far with TNG's crew members, but I find it hard to empathize with anyone in the SW movies, especially The Last Jedi....They feel more like archetypes than actual people.

I love star wars and thought very similarly about The Last Jedi

the took great characters and boringed them down big time. They added Rose, a useless bland character that did more to take away from the film then add to it. The convenience was just toooooo convenient and Las Vegas was really lame.

It had some high points, Rey and Luke and Kylo, those scenes and development were spot on. But they really ruined the momentum that was Poe and Finn,

And seriously, Rose.... such a horrible idea. I thought Force Awakens was great, but the Last Jedi was a mess of a story and a beg detour into bad character alley.

Also, what the heck Laura Dern? She is such a good actress but that plastic face was about as motionless as Saru's. It was so bad it felt like a joke, I honestly chuckled a little at her scenes and felt bad realizing it wasn't her fault, her great acting is just hobbled by her cement face.

 

[plynch]

I have been off the grid and I hadn't heard about its second weekend. I just went to some film/box office sites and they don't think it's a flop.

2. Though I left the theater happy, when I think about it re. TLJ it does not seem an "organic" follow-up to TFA to me. It feels like a movie directed by a new director who didn't want to pursue the clues/mysteries deposited prior. Which is kind of odd since I thought SW was a more "overseen" franchise if you know what I mean. Maybe JJ coming back can pick up the mystery loose-ends.

3. The lack of details re. First Order and Rebellion really remind me of ANH when it was out in 77/78. Very few details. There was just some empire. And some people fighting it. Very archetypal. What was so horrible about the empire other than its methods against those fighting it? We don't really know. It is "bad." The "good guys" are fighting it.

4. I am one of those casual fans who saw every movie once or twice and I have no idea what some of the ancillary materials/movies are that some of you fine folks are talking about. As a high school teacher, I can report that quite a number of my students report they've "never seen one of those movies." (Meaning the main ones, not the offshoots.)

 

[DigificWriter]

Though I left the theater happy, when I think about it re. TLJ it does not seem an "organic" follow-up to TFA to me. It feels like a movie directed by a new director who didn't want to pursue the clues/mysteries deposited prior.

There is nothing IMPORTANT that was set up in TFA that TLJ didn't resolve.

Maybe JJ coming back can pick up the mystery loose-ends.

There are no "mystery loose-ends" coming out of TLJ.

 

[Trekkin]

Hamill clearly got a talking to from Disney legal.

Sure. And Disney pays critics to hate DC movies..

It’s not like the comments being ‘reported on’ were Hamill responding to a discussion on Twitter discussion about delusional fanboys (and geek-focused media) repeatedly quote-mining him.

Hence, Hamill’s reply that he regretted ever opening his mouth in the first place.

https://twitter.com/hamillhimself/status/945784443964309505

We fans are not a particularly self-reflective lot.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Sure. And Disney pays critics to hate DC movies..

It’s not like the comments being ‘reported on’ were Hamill responding to a discussion on Twitter discussion about delusional fanboys (and geek-focused media) repeatedly quote-mining him.

Hence, Hamill’s reply that he regretted ever opening his mouth in the first place.

https://twitter.com/hamillhimself/status/945784443964309505

We fans are not a particularly self-reflective lot.

Considering there scores of clickbait articles spelling doom and gloom for the SW movies and many sites running with Hamil's comments and disagreements over the handling of Luke; before the backlash took root. I would say it's accurate for parties involved (Hamil, Johnson, Disney) to try to spin this bad coverage as much as they can. The DCEU has a plethora of negative press over every little thing. Back in the summer, when Lord and Miller were fired from Han Solo, there was nary a doomcast series of articles. Now though, the internet media sites are smelling blood in the water and are already "projecting" Han Solo to be a flop.

Life comes at you fast.

 

[Unicron]

The only reason the First Order knew about the ships fleeing to that old Rebel base was because of Poe's and Finn's stupid plan.

I admit that, even on the second viewing, I'm not clear how Del Toro's character learned about the cloaking systems, unless it's to be inferred he had prior experience with them (which is possible). At first I thought maybe Poe had unwittingly given those details when he contacted Finn, but since Holdo kept Poe out of the loop and he didn't know why the shuttles were being fueled to begin with, that seemed less likely. Perhaps I missed something, but for me it seems like a matter of convenience to have Finn and Rose fail badly.

 

[EnsignRicky]

There is nothing IMPORTANT that was set up in TFA that TLJ didn't resolve.



There are no "mystery loose-ends" coming out of TLJ.

While there were numerous exciting and unanswered questions left from The Force Awakens; And even though The Last Jedi answered or satisfyingly resolved pretty much none of them, I would still be willing to concede this: By the end of the film, not one shred of anything left mattered anymore.
Personally, I wouldn't have gone for the nuclear option, but it is one way to tie up loose ends.

 

[Trekkin]

Back in the summer, when Lord and Miller were fired from Han Solo, there was nary a doomcast series of articles

I saw them. Many a laugh was had at the ‘acting lessons’ bit. It was even on our evening news.

Which is saying something when I’m on a completely different continent.

And prior to that, R1’s reshoots and profit dip from TFA were the bottom feed bait. Clickbaits gonna burn themselves out if they keep up all this ‘concern’ for the next 3+ years.

I'm not clear how Del Toro's character learned about the cloaking systems, unless it's to be inferred he had prior experience with them

That’s the explanation he gives in the cell. He had a history with them.

 

[plynch]

There is nothing IMPORTANT that was set up in TFA that TLJ didn't resolve.
...
There are no "mystery loose-ends" coming out of TLJ.

I didn't say there were important loose ends; just that it does not at all feel like an "organic" follow-up. (As if it had been written and shot immediately after TFA with a similar director/writer/vision.)

And again, I am a casual fan, but I can think of several questions we were meant to wonder after TFA that were pretty much dropped. I'm OK with that, by the way.

It's odd - I have definite desires for Star Trek installments/incarnations, but with SW I'm ok with visiting that universe and having a good time. Especially if Jar Jar and the wooden Hayden Christensen are not there!

 

[DigificWriter]

I am a casual fan, but I can think of several questions we were meant to wonder after TFA that were pretty much dropped.

Such as?

 

[bigglesworth]

Such as?

While it wasn't a major plot point in TFA, the Knights of Ren is probably the biggest issue that TLJ seemed to abandon. They seemed to be important in Rey's force vision and Snoke mentioned them as well.