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Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie.


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Well the PT were a solix box office success, but fairly or unfairly their reputation deflated over time and something similar could happen to The Last Jedi (and it's got dismal audience scores over on RT and Metacritic).

Yet, the PT blurays and merch still sell.

It’s also turned out that there may be an explanation* for TLJ’s audience score. Befitting for a nerd property, it was the product of someone being unbelievably pathetic.

In fact the supposed confessor so petty and lame, that I’m actually hoping the ‘confession’ turns out to be bogus. For faith in humanity purposes.

*Hint: there really was a conspiracy. Just not on the part of professional critics.
 
I saw it a second time and still loved it. I even thought the pacing was a little better this time around. The movie seemed to go by a lot quicker.

Most of the complaints I have online are just petty. "I wouldn't have written it exactly this way. 1 star"
 
I think the majority of the complaints about the movie (including my own) are regarding the treatment of Luke Skywalker.

Such an anti climax and I feel for the fans who saw Star Wars in 1977 and waited 40 years to see Luke die alone on a rock.
 
I liked the movie but what they did with Luke got to me. If this was a character in any other movie I would get it but Star Wars' Characters are larger than that. The Force Awakens had given us such a great lead in to this movie and I felt much of what made the last movie great and what these characters symbolized, in particular Luke, was discarded here.

And what on earth did he have against Rey and Finn exchanging words?
Right? Another thing discarded in this film.
 
I oddly did not mind how they treated Luke and his climax, for the most part, using the Light side of the Force to its extreme, logical extent, instead of physical violence (which felt poignant and exciting on first viewing).

It was how the B and C plots with the supporting characters and world building that dragged this film down (with Poe being a dangerously foolhardy, insurbordinate doofus and Hux being pompous, ineffectual comic relief, etc).
 
Poe is Ganner Rhysode and Kyp Durron from the Legends novels, and had to learn the same lessons those characters did.

As far as Hux goes, why is his ineffectualness a bad thing, exactly?
 
After sacrificing himself to give his sister and the last of the rebellion enough time to escape. It was AWESOME.

To do what exactly though? No one answered their call for help? He got them safely off Crait yes, but, theyve got no leaders, Leia, Holdo and Ackbar are all dead. I know in the context of this movie Leia was still alive but we know she isn’t in the next movie.

To me to just felt like a slap in the face, oh here’s this almighty Jedi Master who hid different pieces of a map to his location should they ever need his help, to then, not help them and say he won’t help or can’t just seemed daft to me, he said I came here to die. So why hide a map? Why would he want people to find him? And the only thing that changed his mind was his talk with Yoda and seeing an old plead for help from Leia. It had nothing to do with Rey being there.
 
So why hide a map? Why would he want people to find him?

He didn't, and he didn't.

He didn't "hide" the map. It's apparent now that he either hid the location from Ben, or tried to destroy it so that nobody could follow him. And he didn't want people to find him. Poe, Finn and Rey reconstructed the map on their own, for their own purposes. As was made clear here in The Last Jedi, Luke never wanted to be found. The Force just had other ideas.
 
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As far as Hux goes, why is his ineffectualness a bad thing, exactly?

The very young but stern military professional with this mass murdering fanaticism running through him from TFA is reduced to this Satursay morning cartoon baddie who's easily trolled over the airways and got zero grasp over combined fleet tactics.
 
The very young but stern military professional with this mass murdering fanaticism running through him from TFA is reduced to this Satursay morning cartoon baddie who's easily trolled over the airways and got zero grasp over combined fleet tactics.

And, again, why is that a bad thing?

It's Rian Johnson subverting expectations and fleshing out a character who was nothing more than an archetype in The Force Awakens.
 
I still find it unrealistic that nobody answered the Resistance's call for help. The galaxy is a really really big place with millions of star systems. Surely, one of those millions of star systems would have been able to help.
 
The movie could have been better, for sure.

Apart of what I already wrote in this thread about what I consider problems in this movie, let´s talk about Snoke... Not a Sith Lord, but still powerfull in the dark side. An Old being, with a deformed body, but still powerfull, what means that he passed throught many battles and won many of them (and yet, he was never mentioned before).
Therefore... He came from nowhere, and is back to that place again (after a stupid death...). If he was Darth Plagueis, it would at least have been comprehensible and would make more sense in the Star Wars Universe, but it wasn´t Disney´s choice. Now, we "know" you don´t need to be a Jedi nor a Sith to use the Force...

In the next movie, Rey will be a Jedi Master? Luke is dead, and Leia can´t do this. Who will teach the new generation of Jedis (a predictable thing "announced" by the little boy near the end of the movie)?
So, the words of Kylo Ren comes to my mind: "Forget the Sith, the Jedi and all that happened before..."

Let´s hope for a better movie closing this trilogy. But I wouldn´t put my money in risk waiting for this.
 
I still find it unrealistic that nobody answered the Resistance's call for help. The galaxy is a really really big place with millions of star systems. Surely, one of those millions of star systems would have been able to help.
Whereas I think the expectation of allies receiving and responding to such cries of help at short notice while the Resistance were facing such dire odds against the First Order was very unreasonable. Maybe if they were held up for several days without hearing anything, then the feeling that all was lost would be more understandable. But just a few hours?

Apart of what I already wrote in this thread about what I consider problems in this movie, let´s talk about Snoke... Not a Sith Lord, but still powerfull in the dark side. An Old being, with a deformed body, but still powerfull, what means that he passed throught many battles and won many of them (and yet, he was never mentioned before).
That's all speculation on your part. In fact, we know nothing about him other than he was strong with the Dark Side, turned Ben, and rules the First Order. That's it.
 
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And, again, why is that a bad thing?

It deflates somewhat the sense of danger and evil with the First Order military? Some viewers suggested the prank calling would've worked better if it was one of Hux's rookie lieutenants, but not a 2nd tier movie antagonist like Hux.

It's Rian Johnson subverting expectations and fleshing out a character who was nothing more than an archetype in The Force Awakens.

Humour with villains is alright and Hux was sorta sketchy, but the humour here felt like going from the dry snarky humour with Hans Landa to the comical idiot Nazis from Hogan's Heroes and 'Allo 'Allo.
 
Poe trolling Hux is no different, fundamentally, than Leia spouting off to Vader and Tarkin in A New Hope, or Han being snarky towards the Imperial officer in charge of the Death Star detention block.
 
Whereas I think the expectation of allies receiving and responding to such cries of help at short notice while the Resistance were facing such dire odds against the First Order was very unreasonable. Maybe if they were held up for several days without hearing anything, then the feeling that all was lost would be more understandable. But just a few hours?

The next movie should address this point by having some allies eventually pop up and help the Resistance.
 
This movie is awesome and my favorite SW movie to date.

A nice blend of action and comedy. The acting was good and the characters developed nicely, particularly Poe's character. I hated the Vice Admiral at first and was all excited how Poe mutinied then when her plan was revealed and she made her sacrifice I was rooting for her. I did a complete 180 on that, and the way that and many other things were handled, with a twist, is why I enjoy this movie so much.

Opening space battle - awesome
Rey and Kylo interaction was awesome - and that it looks like Kylo Ren won't do a predictable "return to the light side" move is awesome. I really thought Ren would hook up with Kylo and then when she didn't it was great. The battle with the Praetorian Guards was freaking awesome. I do wish they explained more about them. I thought they were the knights or Ren most of the movie.

I greatly enjoy Adam Driver's portrayal of Kylo. He is an emo kid with anger issues, he has too much power for someone so young. Much better than Christian Hayden's performance as Anakin.

No issues with how Snoke wasn't developed or how he died. Kylo did a sneaky, clever way to kill him. Great! Plenty of Star Wars backstory isn't revealed in movies and left for other media to explain. So nothing new here.

The casino scene was out of place and could have been dropped. I mean, great visuals and a great setting but leaving the rebel fleet, going to the casino and coming back was pretty damned dumb.

The rebel fleet fleeing the FO was a big plot hole too. I figure the FO builds huge powerful, but slow ships so this was a weakness of theirs. The rebels could just outfly them. It happens in war, that is why armies take quick moving flanking units. The First Order didn't do this for some reason.

No issues with Lea flying through space. We have no indication if she was trained to use her powers or not before this. So now we know she did have some training and must be powerful.

Yoda was flipping awesome. I had to change my underwear after that scene.

Mark Hammil gave a stellar performance. He is such a great actor it's a shame he hasn't done more movies in his career. Force projection Luke was very clever. His X-Wing was in the salt ocean and probably couldn't fly anymore so he found a solution. When the First Order opened fire I knew he wasn't dead - when he strutted out and brushed some dust off his shoulder I lost it. I always prefer a clever hero than a powerful one - although Luke is both. Ultimately, Luke is not the hero of this story, this is not the story of the old characters so his character did just what needed to be done. We can't expect Luke to sweep in and kill Kylo, Snoke and everyone else. That is for Rey, Finn and Poe - which this movie sets up to be the new generation of heroes. As awesome as Luke was, we really needed less of him and more of the new people.

Grumpy old man Luke is fine. He didn't know the FO was destroying the republic. He just knows he failed at being a Jedi Master so he went off to die. We have no idea what went on before the movies, maybe some bad stuff happened and he no longer wanted to be the hero. Obviously, some failure happened with the new Republic that let the first order rise up and led to the REsistance - maybe Luke was just sick of it and decided to be a Jedi and not get involved in the rest. When his new Jedi order falls apart he says "forget it" and goes to be a hermit.

Anyway, his death was fine. He can always come back as a force ghost.
 
The next movie should address this point by having some allies eventually pop up and help the Resistance.

I think it almost inevitably will. How else will the rebels win? I guess in the interest of subverting expectations, the trilogy might end with another loss, and everyone but Ray and Finn dies. Except all the characters we care about other than those two are already dead, so there isn't anyone left to kill in 9.
 
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