Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[{ Emilia }]

While a lot of the humor was an attempt to copy others, I think that Luke being a little weird and using humor to avoid being serious at least made him like Yoda in ESB. On some level, we should expect him to be less than serious.

That's how I rationalized it as well. It just didn't work for me as a scene.

 

[DigificWriter]

If the humor in TLJ is "Marvel humor", so is every other instance of humor in Star Wars.

 

[Cinema Geekly]

The difference was profound in two categories: In ANH, Vader was already what Kylo Ren was not: a great, effective villain, so when the Emperor was introduced in ESB, the entire Star Wars world and its mystique grew exponentially by having an already legendary screen and in-universe villain in Vader in a genuinely submissive role to this grim, near-snarling projection. That's the opposite of Snoke, who was just a "we need a Sidious in this series" stand-in. He had no presence, no magnetism as an evil figure--just another painfully CG "bad guy" that meant noting, therefore his relationship to Kylo Ren (and anyone else) meant noting. The glaring contrast to Palaptine is that no matter how powerful and malevolent Vader seemed to be (especially after all of the damage he inflicted on the protagonists in ESB), there was this one figure--a true corrupt opposite of Yoda--generating fear and respect from Vader.

By the time of ROTJ, Palpatine was the most anticipated character after Luke, and long before his actual confrontation with Luke, he was a larger than life presence and influence on all plot points in the film. This was a highly successful character, hence the reason audiences were on the edge of the seat as he was electrocuting Luke, and actually on their feet cheering (at least on premiere night at the Egyptian Theatre back in 1983) when Vader hurled him down the shaft. In other words, the audience was emotionally invested in the Emperor enough to be absolutely overjoyed to see him meet his end.

That is the reason fans looked forward to seeing his early years when the prequels were announced.

Snoke was never developed, coughed up some sound-alike "Sith-isms" and was not the overshadowing influence on the lives of the heroes in the Palpatine was. So, you did not get much from that, but innumerable moviegoers, series fans, et al., thought his role--and ultimately death (in the OT) was one of its most important, memorable events.




At least Fett's original intent--to be a sinister bounty hunter--played a significant role in his debut movie. Phasma was the product of anything other than creating a character with impact on events. She made a couple of snarky comments about resident fool/clown Finn, stomped around, and that was it. There was no disappointment in Phasma's death, because she--like Snoke--meant nothing.

I didn't say Snoke was a better Palpatine just a stand in for him. Just as Phasma was for Fett.

I just saw them as obstacles for growth for the main characters. Palpatine's death serves a different purpose though (at least to me) because it takes place in the final moments of the third part of a three part story. They are clearly not telling the same exact story now so I wouldn't expect to get the same amount out of Snoke that I got out of Palpatine.

Certainly, Jar Jar's idiocy/obvious marketing scheme took audiences out of The Phantom Menace, but Rose was bad and felt like a character meant for some web series on obsessive Star Wars fans, instead of being a character with a reason to be in the film.

This is always a simple answer for me. Change nothing about the film and just remove Rose......does anything change? Finn goes to Canto Bight, gets arrested, meets DJ, they escape, DJ stabs Finn in the back, Finn kills Phasma, escapes to Crait, gets in a skimmer to battle the First Order, and dies.

Well she has at least one purpose. She kind of falls for Finn and stops him from sacrificing himself. Plus she delivers a great line about winning by saving the things we love not killing the things we hate.

 

[fireproof78]

If the humor in TLJ is "Marvel humor", so is every other instance of humor in Star Wars.

TLJ did it and therefore it is bad

 

[EnderAKH]

Really? Is the prank call scene really worse than Jar Jar stepping in the electrical field of the pod racer? Or this? [YouTube]

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[/YouTube] especially around the 30 second mark.

 

[{ Emilia }]

If the humor in TLJ is "Marvel humor", so is every other instance of humor in Star Wars.

I'm sort of okay with it because it reminded me of Han making shit up as he talks to the guy on the intercom at Leia's cell but the tone still feels different. Poe's prank call was the first time we see the Rebels make fun of the First Order/Empire. The OT does take itself pretty seriously.

But then again I think Hux is a terrible villain.

The prequels... well, duh. I'm only comparing TLJ to the OT. The prequels were a fucking mess when it came to Lucas' childish sense of humour and the inconsistencies in tone. (And no, I don't care to get into a long debate about the prequels with you again.)

Really? Is the prank call scene really worse than Jar Jar stepping in the electrical field of the pod racer? Or this? [YouTube]

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[/YouTube] especially around the 30 second mark.

Again, I'm only referring to the tone of the OT. Not the prequels or even the OT special editions. Everybody hates that new musical number.

It's a minor problem for me anyway. I really liked TLJ when I watched it the second time. It didn't provide the sense of joy, adventure and wonder that TFA provided but I'd watch them both over the OT (mostly because I've seen those movies way too many times) right now.
The good stuff in TLJ is great but some of the flaws are rather annoying so I'm still undecided how I'd rank it. We'll see how it ages in my mind.

The prequels are utterly unwatchable for me.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Poe's prank call was the first time we see the Rebels make fun of the First Order/Empire.

And his flippancy in that moment gets repaid in kind when his overall attitude ends up costing ¾ of the resistance fleet. I think it works perfectly, as he gets built up, and then broken down within minutes. And then once more time later.

The prank call wasn't the only one that stood out as unusual to me. Hux as an atrocious villain, but also doubles as a laughing stock is also unusual. I'm enjoying it very much. The human interactions as a whole are slightly unexpected – witnessing Kylo Ren contemplating murdering his mother, while completely in line with the exploration of his inner conflict and Star Warsy in that sense, wasn't a moment I was expecting to see, and brought a sense of reality with it.

There's also the entire character of Finn, whose lines carry constant comic undertones that are anything I remember in Star Wars. They feel too... non-fantasy. That's taken further with Rose Tico (they were so wonderful together every time) – the human moment they had after she crashed into him also tried to kick me back into the real world.

For me, at least.

I liked it. It made everything kind of surreal.

 

[JD]

I didn't say Snoke was a better Palpatine just a stand in for him. Just as Phasma was for Fett.

I just saw them as obstacles for growth for the main characters. Palpatine's death serves a different purpose though (at least to me) because it takes place in the final moments of the third part of a three part story. They are clearly not telling the same exact story now so I wouldn't expect to get the same amount out of Snoke that I got out of Palpatine.



This is always a simple answer for me. Change nothing about the film and just remove Rose......does anything change? Finn goes to Canto Bight, gets arrested, meets DJ, they escape, DJ stabs Finn in the back, Finn kills Phasma, escapes to Crait, gets in a skimmer to battle the First Order, and dies.

If Rose hadn't been around then she never would stopped him from leaving on the escape pod, and she also never would have gotten involved in anything more than her basic duties.

 

[fireproof78]

Everybody hates that new musical number.

I don't

 

[{ Emilia }]

I don't

That's just because you don't have a soul.

 

[fireproof78]

That's just because you don't have a soul.

 

[Seven of Five]

Finally, finally, finally saw it and I loved it. I think some of the earlier scenes on Ahch-To were very slowly paced, but eventually I was pulled in to the point where I was gripping the side of the seat I was sitting in. Wow it was tense at the end.

I loved the humour. Opening the movie with the prank call had me wondering what I'd showed up to, but the tone was right throughout for me. Well, perhaps the odd awkward moment throughout, but hey this is Star Wars. ROTJ had some very odd/quirky stuff in the first act.

BB8 stole every scene he was in again, I love that little mofo.

I thought Rose was quite good, so am I strange? Perhaps her and Finn's mission seemed a little off-balance when compared to everything else in the film's story, and it reminded me a little of some of the prequel side-stories Obi-Wan was lumbered with. Having said that I thought her and Finn had nice chemistry, and I loved her saying that should fight for what they love rather than against what they hate. Perfect.

Ghost Yoda was a wonderful surprise, particularly as he was more like his old TESB/ROTJ self.

I found Kylo Ren somewhat unbearable in TFA, so I was happy to see him more developed and thus a lot more interesting here. The death of Snoke here and his rise to Supreme Chancellor was intriguing, and I look forward to how the whole Skywalker good/bad dilemma is resolved in Episode IX.

Luke's death at the end had me shedding a tear similarly to Han back in TFA. It was a nice moment, going out peace after what had clearly been such a turbulent time for him.

With Carrie Fisher's sad death, it means we're losing a legend a movie. It's a sad rate of death, but looking at the end of this movie, it seems that death is leading to a new chance to resist evil. A good legacy.

 

[theenglish]

I admit that, even on the second viewing, I'm not clear how Del Toro's character learned about the cloaking systems, unless it's to be inferred he had prior experience with them (which is possible). At first I thought maybe Poe had unwittingly given those details when he contacted Finn, but since Holdo kept Poe out of the loop and he didn't know why the shuttles were being fueled to begin with, that seemed less likely. Perhaps I missed something, but for me it seems like a matter of convenience to have Finn and Rose fail badly.

He probably sold them to the Resistance in the first place.

While it wasn't a major plot point in TFA, the Knights of Ren is probably the biggest issue that TLJ seemed to abandon. They seemed to be important in Rey's force vision and Snoke mentioned them as well.

Maybe we will see them in the next movie? Perhaps they are the other students from Luke's academy?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I thought Rose was quite good, so am I strange?

Not at all. I loved her character and I think she's a fine addition to the Star Wars universe.

 

[Ithekro]

That's just because you don't have a soul.

I thought that was suppose to be soul music from a galaxy far, far away.

 

[Vger23]

Apparently I'm officially a big fan of this new "Sequel Trilogy".

Here's my ranking as of now:

1. ESB
2. ANH
3. TFA
4. TLJ
5. ROTJ
6. TPM
7. ROTS
8. AOTC
9. R1

 

[bigglesworth]

My rankings of the SW films:

1. ESB
2. ANH
3. R1
4. TFA
5. ROTJ
6. ROTS
7. TPM
8. TLJ
9. AOTC

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Here's how I'd rank them:

1. RotJ
2. ESB
3. RotS
4. R1
5. ANH
6. TFA
7. TLJ
8. TPM
9. AotC

 

[Vger23]

I honestly felt that Star Trek fans lamenting the Kelvinverse films and smearing wet boogies all over DSC was the peak of horrid, until I started creeping around the 'net and reading what the SW fans are writing.

Man...holy shit. People need to frigging chill. Making the Star Trek malcontents look like a bunch of laid-back, easy-to-please hippies.

 

[fireproof78]

I honestly felt that Star Trek fans lamenting the Kelvinverse films and smearing wet boogies all over DSC was the peak of horrid, until I started creeping around the 'net and reading what the SW fans are writing.

Man...holy shit. People need to frigging chill. Making the Star Trek malcontents look like a bunch of laid-back, easy-to-please hippies.

If you only knew the power...