I'd say Luke was a novice trainer as well.
For me, it seems Kylo Ren found the Dark Side exotic.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion (HERE THERE BE SPOILERS)
- Thread starter sttngfan1701d
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I'd say Luke was a novice trainer as well.
For me, it seems Kylo Ren found the Dark Side exotic.
Why do they need to explain the step-by-step of his fall? It's always the same: the person gets it in their heads that the Dark Side is the path to getting them what they want. Whether it be power for powers sake (Emperor), the ability to protect others (Luke and Anakin), or getting the appreciation and 'destiny' that they think they deserve (Ben.)
Other than that, the details have always varied. Maul was an indoctrinated Sith, Dooku was a Master before his fall and (like Ben) had presumably had a typical 'trained to be a Jedi from childhood' upbringing, Anakin's life was an absolute mess, and Luke himself was tempted in spite of having a reasonably normal family life. There's no hard and fast rule as to who is susceptible, other than maybe they have a bit of a 'I'm the only one who can...' thing going on.
Kylo also acted like he thought his grandfather had been in contact and given him Dark Side advice at least the once, so they established somone was screwing with him that way.
Other than that, the details have always varied. Maul was an indoctrinated Sith, Dooku was a Master before his fall and (like Ben) had presumably had a typical 'trained to be a Jedi from childhood' upbringing, Anakin's life was an absolute mess, and Luke himself was tempted in spite of having a reasonably normal family life. There's no hard and fast rule as to who is susceptible, other than maybe they have a bit of a 'I'm the only one who can...' thing going on.
Kylo also acted like he thought his grandfather had been in contact and given him Dark Side advice at least the once, so they established somone was screwing with him that way.
Kylo Ren makes sense. He was seduced by the pleasures and temptations of the Dark Side of the Force and fell in spite of being surrounded by his uncle - the last of the Jedi - and a Force-sensitive mother who was also a Skywalker and an heir to the legacy of her family's great powers. Ben Solo was surrounded by far fewer Jedi trainees than was his grandfather and probably felt more isolated and frustrated by being one of just a small handful of people chosen by his uncle to become the new generation of Jedi Knights.
Combine that with the trials of growing up, the dark influences of Supreme Leader Snoke and learning about his grandfather's fall and the atrocities he committed as Darth Vader and it's not all that surprising that Ben Solo also turned to the Dark Side. Just because Luke Skywalker is your Jedi Master and your mother and father are Rebel leaders and heroes doesn't mean you'll be immune from being seduced by evil.
Combine that with the trials of growing up, the dark influences of Supreme Leader Snoke and learning about his grandfather's fall and the atrocities he committed as Darth Vader and it's not all that surprising that Ben Solo also turned to the Dark Side. Just because Luke Skywalker is your Jedi Master and your mother and father are Rebel leaders and heroes doesn't mean you'll be immune from being seduced by evil.
I can see Romulus from my house!
Here's a question based on the Kylo Ren discussion. Did we want to know Anakin's story and his fall? Since I'm not quite old enough to remember the reaction to TESB and ROTJ as far as Vader's revelation, was there an interest in seeing that specific story that led to Anakin's fall or is Obi-Wan's (non) explanation enough in ROTJ?
As for me, I liked Kylo Ren just fine, especially for a first movie, which TFA was very obviously the first in a trilogy, rather than an accidental success like the original. I don't think it was necessary for his background to be exposited in full in the first film, when it seemed clear to me that they were going establish the new players, and their goals and expand upon the story from there. If it were a standalone film, I might be inclined to say that Kylo Ren needed a little bit more as did Snoke. As the first film, I'm ok with having questions unanswered.
As for me, I liked Kylo Ren just fine, especially for a first movie, which TFA was very obviously the first in a trilogy, rather than an accidental success like the original. I don't think it was necessary for his background to be exposited in full in the first film, when it seemed clear to me that they were going establish the new players, and their goals and expand upon the story from there. If it were a standalone film, I might be inclined to say that Kylo Ren needed a little bit more as did Snoke. As the first film, I'm ok with having questions unanswered.
I went into the movie not very excited about Kylo Ren, but I was pleasantly surprised by him. I thought he was a great villain and a great fit for this new trilogy. Both our heroes and our villain are hapless kids who don't know what they're doing and are very confused. I thought the helmet voice sounded great, and Driver's natural voice sounded great as well. I saw him on the first season of Girls and really didn't care for him, but he really owned this role and came off as a tortured bad ass struggling to be evil. I love that he's TRYING to be evil and failing rather than being trying to be good and failing. I can't wait to find out about his backstory and the nature of Snoke's hold on him.
But those things really aren't important to the story being told here. This isn't a story about Kylo Ren, or The Resistance and The First Order. Sure they are a part of the story, but it is actually Rey and Finn's story, and really I thought we got all of the information we needed to follow their story.
It's also worth keeping in mind that this is being made specifically as the first part of a new trilogy, so we will have probably about 3-6 more hours worth of story to get more in depth. They aren't going to want to give us every little detail right away, they want to leave some stuff for the later movies.
It's also worth keeping in mind that most casual viewers are probably not going to be that concerned with the kinds of details we fans are. So in order to not scare them off they're not going to want to overload the movie with to much detailed exposition that doesn't directly effect what's happening on screen at that moment.
If you want more details on the backstory, then there are plenty of sources for it.
I have a feeling we'll probably learn a lot more about Snoke and Ben Solo's transformation into Kylo Ren in one or both of the next main series movies.
I somewhat disagree that it isn't partly Ben's story, too. TFA was definitely primarily Rey's story and secondly Finn's, yeah, but I think Ben's role in it will grow in Episode VIII. But I do agree that we'll probably learn a lot more about how and why he fell to the dark side, now that Luke is around to dump exposition, Obi-Wan style.
By the time Episode IX is over we'll know how Ben became Kylo Ren and what role Snoke played in his fall to the Dark Side. The second and third films in the previous trilogies usually filled in most of the blanks we had after seeing the first movies.
At this point I'm expecting the Ben/Snoke relationship to be similar to Anakin/Palpatine. Ben runs into Snoke, unaware of what/who he is and befriends him, Snoke then turns him against Luke and his parents and begins his fall to the Dark Side. I thought that much was pretty easy to figure out from the bits and pieces the movie gave us, but I am very curious to learn more about how exactly it all played out.
Or a distant Dark Side user who made a connection with Ben Solo through the Force and influenced his behavior and eventual fall, then took over his training after the apprentices in the New Jedi Order (or whatever it's going to be called in this revised history) had been wiped out. It's possible Ben Solo never met Snoke in the flesh until after he'd turned on Luke and his parents and left.
I kind of like the idea that Luke is stabbed in the back by someone close, the same way his Dad stabbed Obi-wan in the back.
Another one of the Jedi trainees could have been a deliberate plant by Snoke to disrupt and destroy Luke's efforts from within, and in the process they seduced Ben to the Dark Side.
I'm hoping that there is a personal connection between Luke and Snoke, much like there was between Vader and Obi-wan.
Normally, I wouldn't want such close connections, but Star Wars seems to thrive on them.
That's the impression I get. Psychic communication using the Dark Side that manipulated Ben Solo's thoughts and emotions and helped drive him to commit acts of evil.
