Onderon? Beast riders? Nice. The old TotJ books never got enough love IMO.
Star Wars: The Clone Wars S4
- Thread starter Mysterion
- Start date
Onderon? Beast riders? Nice. The old TotJ books never got enough love IMO.
Is it silly strawman time?
Temis the Vorta said:
There aren't any. That's the whole point.
Before they know he's a Sith, there's no reason to counter him. It'd be like expecting the Secret Service to be invested in ways to counter the President. After they know he's a Sith, exactly what "intelligent" strategy are they supposed to use? Working through "proper" legal channels is out. That leaves brute force.
Ian Keldon
Fleet Captain
Occupational hazard for a series that is a "gap filler" between other stories.
The Jedi are "destined" to fail, thanks to their own arrogance, blindness and corruption, just like the Republic is. Even Yoda himself comments on several occasions about Jedi arrogance and blindness.
In terms of overstory, Lucas is making a point about how civilizations cannot fall to external power unless and until they have first rotted from within.
The real problem I think is that we've come to care so much about these characters, about Asoka, about Ploo Kloon, about Rex and the clone troopers that we don't really want to face the dark fate that awaits them at the end of this series.
Go we get mad, and rant "why don't they do this?" "why don't they do that?" "why are they so blindly marching off to their ultimate destruction?"
We, the viewers are in effect time travellers in the SW universe. We know what is coming, and we so very desperately want to somehow change it...but history will have it's due, and what is fated to be MUST be...
No offense here, but it sounds like you're using the writing to justify the writing. Of course Palps is written so that the Jedi had no other options than brute force. That doesn't make it good writing. And it sure wasn't the only option.
One option would be that Palps gets "outed" earlier in the series so that the Jedi can see what they're up against. But maybe they can't convince enough people, so they wind up in a losing three-way war with both the Republic and the Separatists. It would sure be more compelling than having them stumbling around in the dark and finally getting shot in the back.
Is it silly strawman time?
Actually, that's entirely appropriate! Let me revise:
Stumbling around in the dark, fighting silly straw men, and finally getting shot in the back.
Makes sense given how slowly time has been going in the series. The Outer Rim Sieges (five-six months, if I recall) by itself could take up the entire final season.
That said, I get the distinct feeling Ahsoka, Rex and Asaaj are not long for this world and will be definitively written out by this season's end (via the Maul Brothers' lightsabers). Season 6 will then be both the Outer Rim Sieges and Obi-Wan/Anakin hunting down the Maul Bros. and killing them. For obvious reasons, we won't see much of Padme in Season 6 either.
Silvercrest said:
It doesn't make it "bad" writing. What it is is a good plan. If Lucas broke some imaginary rule by writing an antagonist who puts the protagonists in an impossible position, then so be it. That kind of thing is what antagonists in general dream about.
Those who wanted to see the whole thing resolved on the basketball court may have had the wrong idea. I mean, when you've got one guy basically running the whole show, while by comparison everyone else around him comes off like a chump in the end, we know for damn sure nothing like that would ever happen in the NBA, right?
@#$% warmongers. Extending a war just for the sake of profit. They should be ashamed.
Filoni has stated he has written multiple versions of Ahsoka's fate and has been obviously vague about revealing what it eventually might be, but does know it. I never considered the possibility that Ahsoka might not survive the series in the many speculations that we've had about her fate.
Okay. I'll give you the point... if we were supposed to be rooting for Palpatine.
Actually, now I'm wondering.
Seriously: I'm not going to simplistically call it "bad" writing. But surely you'll admit that some folks may find it unsatisfying that the protagonists never had a chance to win.
I'm not objecting to the fact that they lost. Obviously Star Wars history requires that. I'm objecting to the fact that galactic history would have proceeded pretty much the same if the Jedi had rolled over and surrendered in Episode 1.
Losing because you're outmaneuvered is one thing. Losing because you and your allies are portrayed as chumps is another.
Being deliberately placed in a virtual no-win scenario counts as being outmaneuvered.
Sure it does! But so does shooting fish in a barrel, at least as far as the fish are concerned. And I wouldn't watch a movie about that either.
Alas, too late! I only came to this realization after I watched it. 
Now, when that "fish in a barrel" movie comes out, I'm going to be forewarned....
Seriously, remember, I'm not just dismissing it as "bad." I just feel it's overly simplistic to be treated as compelling drama. I like watching it-- I just don't watch it for compelling drama, any more than I do "Eureka."
I think our primary difference is this: A situation where the antagonist holds all the cards is something you find compelling per se. Viewers like Temis and myself need another factor in that situation before it grabs us. Sounds about right, anyway.
Now, when that "fish in a barrel" movie comes out, I'm going to be forewarned....
Seriously, remember, I'm not just dismissing it as "bad." I just feel it's overly simplistic to be treated as compelling drama. I like watching it-- I just don't watch it for compelling drama, any more than I do "Eureka."
I think our primary difference is this: A situation where the antagonist holds all the cards is something you find compelling per se. Viewers like Temis and myself need another factor in that situation before it grabs us. Sounds about right, anyway.
There's only three real possible fates for her. Either she becomes a Jedi Knight (in which case the Council REALLY has no excuse to not promote Anakin to Jedi Master, so not likely), she falls in love with Lux and drops out of the Jedi Order (doing what Anakin didn't have the courage to do), or she dies. Whether it's option 2 or 3, the Council (read: Mace Windu) will harshly blame Anakin for Ahsoka's failure (fairly or not), setting up the openly adversarial dynamic between the two in ROTS.
If it's option 2, it means we'll be seeing Darth Vader hunt down and kill an adult Ahsoka a few years from now in the live-action series (if it happens). If it's 3, as I've said, it perfectly sets up the story arc for Season 6.
Except that the live-action series is reportedly supposed to focus on bounty hunters and crime bosses, not Vader and the Jedi.
Oh, I didn't say they'd base the series around it. It sounds to me like it's going to be more an anthology than anything else. Vader's hunt for Ahsoka could be done in one episode - in fact, he wouldn't even have to appear until the last ten minutes of the episode, with the bulk focusing entirely on Ahsoka. He'd simply use the "bounty hunters and crime bosses" to run her to ground and corner her for him.
Ian Keldon
Fleet Captain
Which is why I won't be watching if it ever gets made...I don't give a bantha poodoo about bounty hunters and crime bosses...I want to see the evil of the Empire lead to the birth of the Rebellion.
The only reason why Ahoska would be left alive is if Lucas wants to do something with her in the future. I believe Ventress' fate was left vague in the Dark Horse Clone Wars comics (she survived but was seen being transported to location unknown) same with Quinlan Vos. I've been pulling for the left alive option.
I might be in the minority, but I'd like to see the series end with another movie as a bookend. It started as a movie and feel like it should end as a film. I doubt this will happen though.
I might be in the minority, but I'd like to see the series end with another movie as a bookend. It started as a movie and feel like it should end as a film. I doubt this will happen though.
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