Star Wars Rebels Season Three (spoilers)

[kirk55555]

In what way? I was expecting a let down but was pleasantly surprised by it.

I don't like mandalorian stuff in Rebels or TCW, and Legacy of Mandalore was just more of that. It also didn't help that I could have called ever story beat in my sleep, or that outside of Sabine I hated every "mandalorian" character in the episode. The villain was also terrible, as was Sabine's mother. Same with their whole BS "mandalorian" culture, but that's to be expected at this point since I'm a hardcore Karen Traviss mandalorian fan and feel nothing but disdain (at best) for the Filoni "mandalorians". Sabine was admittedly growing on me, if I ignored her calling herself "mandalorian" I might even say she's one of the best main characters. But, in the end, the episode went exactly as I expected, and we even lost one of the more developed cast members.

But, like I said, at least with her gone we probably won't be seeing the Filoni mandalorians for awhile. So maybe they'll focus on more interesting stuff, like Thrawn, fulcrum, bendu, etc. now.

 

[The Wormhole]

But, like I said, at least with her gone we probably won't be seeing the Filoni mandalorians for awhile.

Don't hold your breath. IIRC, there were reports of Katee Sackhoff reprising her role from Clone Wars on Rebels. Which would indicate we're in for more Mandalorians yet.

 

[Tallguy]

I had no idea that she was on Clone Wars.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I don't like mandalorian stuff in Rebels or TCW, and Legacy of Mandalore was just more of that. It also didn't help that I could have called ever story beat in my sleep, or that outside of Sabine I hated every "mandalorian" character in the episode. The villain was also terrible, as was Sabine's mother. Same with their whole BS "mandalorian" culture, but that's to be expected at this point since I'm a hardcore Karen Traviss mandalorian fan and feel nothing but disdain (at best) for the Filoni "mandalorians". Sabine was admittedly growing on me, if I ignored her calling herself "mandalorian" I might even say she's one of the best main characters. But, in the end, the episode went exactly as I expected, and we even lost one of the more developed cast members.

But, like I said, at least with her gone we probably won't be seeing the Filoni mandalorians for awhile. So maybe they'll focus on more interesting stuff, like Thrawn, fulcrum, bendu, etc. now.

So, what are Mandolorians meant to be? Isn't the only comparator the old EU stuff, which no longer applies?

Are you wanting the old stuff to be "recanonised"?

 

[Reverend]

I had no idea that she was on Clone Wars.

Yup, Bo Katan Kryze. You'd be forgiven for not recognising her voice since she was more of a recurring supporting character and a fairly taciturn one at that.

I think it's a fair bet she's going to be the one Sabine approaches to unite the clans. For one thing, she's in the unique position of having a foot in both of the major philosophical factions in Mandalorian society. Her history with Death Watch & House Vizla gives her an instant in with the traditionalist warrior clans and her heritage as a Kryze and sister of Duchess Satine should at least giver her a chance at a hearing with whatever's left of the progressive "New Mandalorians".
Not to say that it'd be easy, especially with Imperial loyalists in the mix and the minor detail that she was a willing party to terrorism against her sister's regime, being party to the murder of defenceless civilians on Carlac and refusing to submit to Maul in defiance of Mandalorian law and tradition.

Personally even if that's not the direction they're taking her, I'm curious to see what's going on with her after all these years. I would be surprised if she's turned hermit like Kenobi or become a bounty hunter. I seriously doubt she would have become an Imperial stooge.

 

[Tallguy]

I can see Kirk55555's point about this episode. It felt the most prequel / Clone Wars of any of the episodes of Rebels. A LOT of "palace intrigue" kind of stuff.

OTOH, it would be nice to see a "day in the life of the Organa's" set on Coruscant that showed what government under Palpatine looks like.

 

[JD]

That said, I'd be surprised if they ever try to integrate the story of Revan into canon. Like most Bioware games, player choice is such an integral element in how the story is told that any definitive version of it is going to seem like a pale imitation. Mind you, I'd be down with the possibility of there being many conflicting versions of "The Legend of Darth Revan" where some versions have them falling back to the dark side and murdering various close friends, others say they returned to the light and nobody's even really sure whether they were a man or a woman. That could be fun, but it'd infuriate the wiki editors no end.

There is an EU novel focused on Revan after KOTOR, so they did already settle on a single version of his story there. It's obviously not canon anymore, but if they wanted to bring him in I could see them sticking with whatever version of his story the book went with.

I don't like mandalorian stuff in Rebels or TCW, and Legacy of Mandalore was just more of that. It also didn't help that I could have called ever story beat in my sleep, or that outside of Sabine I hated every "mandalorian" character in the episode. The villain was also terrible, as was Sabine's mother. Same with their whole BS "mandalorian" culture, but that's to be expected at this point since I'm a hardcore Karen Traviss mandalorian fan and feel nothing but disdain (at best) for the Filoni "mandalorians". Sabine was admittedly growing on me, if I ignored her calling herself "mandalorian" I might even say she's one of the best main characters. But, in the end, the episode went exactly as I expected, and we even lost one of the more developed cast members.

But, like I said, at least with her gone we probably won't be seeing the Filoni mandalorians for awhile. So maybe they'll focus on more interesting stuff, like Thrawn, fulcrum, bendu, etc. now.

And there we go.

 

[Reverend]

There is an EU novel focused on Revan after KOTOR, so they did already settle on a single version of his story there. It's obviously not canon anymore, but if they wanted to bring him in I could see them sticking with whatever version of his story the book went with.

And there we go.

I'm aware of what they went with, but it doesn't mean it was a particularly good idea.

I know traditionally in the EU, Star Wars games with multiple endings typically got their "good" endings acknowledged as being in-continuity, but I think KOTOR should have been an exception. It's not the same as the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight or Force Unleashed games where you're playing a static character and maybe making one or two binary decisions in the third act.
A core part of the player's agency with the story of KoTOR is in crafting the character, making them their own and then navigating that character though *a lot* of decisions that often had more than just two possible outcomes. It's an order of magnitude more complicated.

Picking a particular set of permutations is only going to alienate most of the fans that didn't so happen to make those same choices and thus undermine the whole point to re-introducing a fan favourite character. For example, I played as a female who most definitely did not start a family with Bastila, so when reading that novel it didn't feel like it was even remotely about the character I was invested in. It was just some invented character using the same name.

So yeah, using Revan isn't as straightforward as Thrawn or even the likes of Nomi Sunrider, Booster Terrik or Ysanne Isard. There isn't a definitive version of that character than you can just slot into canon with only a few minor tweaks. You'd have to essentially craft an entirely new character, which would defeat the purpose.

That's why I feel that it's best to keep it deliberately vague or don't bother at all.

OTOH, it would be nice to see a "day in the life of the Organa's" set on Coruscant that showed what government under Palpatine looks like.

A plot I've been hoping for since the show started is an undercover heist on the Imperial Palace. It'll be interesting to see what's become of the temple and it'd be an interesting reversal to have Jedi breaking *in* to it to steal some Sith secret or another. I still hope they get around to something along those lines one of these days.

 

[Christopher]

OTOH, it would be nice to see a "day in the life of the Organa's" set on Coruscant that showed what government under Palpatine looks like.

I'm still disappointed that this show didn't revolve at least partly around Leia. I'm curious about her formative years and how she became a princess, senator, and rebel leader by the age of 19. Instead, we've gotten only one episode involving her.

 

[JD]

It is a bit surprising they didn't go for a young Leia or young Han series.

I'm aware of what they went with, but it doesn't mean it was a particularly good idea.

I know traditionally in the EU, Star Wars games with multiple endings typically got their "good" endings acknowledged as being in-continuity, but I think KOTOR should have been an exception. It's not the same as the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight or Force Unleashed games where you're playing a static character and maybe making one or two binary decisions in the third act.
A core part of the player's agency with the story of KoTOR is in crafting the character, making them their own and then navigating that character though *a lot* of decisions that often had more than just two possible outcomes. It's an order of magnitude more complicated.

Picking a particular set of permutations is only going to alienate most of the fans that didn't so happen to make those same choices and thus undermine the whole point to re-introducing a fan favourite character. For example, I played as a female who most definitely did not start a family with Bastila, so when reading that novel it didn't feel like it was even remotely about the character I was invested in. It was just some invented character using the same name.

So yeah, using Revan isn't as straightforward as Thrawn or even the likes of Nomi Sunrider, Booster Terrik or Ysanne Isard. There isn't a definitive version of that character than you can just slot into canon with only a few minor tweaks. You'd have to essentially craft an entirely new character, which would defeat the purpose.

That's why I feel that it's best to keep it deliberately vague or don't bother at all.



A plot I've been hoping for since the show started is an undercover heist on the Imperial Palace. It'll be interesting to see what's become of the temple and it'd be an interesting reversal to have Jedi breaking *in* to it to steal some Sith secret or another. I still hope they get around to something along those lines one of these days.

I have to admit, I forgot just how much you did personalize Revan in the game. Recognizing that know, I can see where it probably would be better to just leave Revan as a vague name drop.

 

[Reverend]

It is a bit surprising they didn't go for a young Leia or young Han series.

Considering they just started shooting a young Han movie, it's a safe bet the story group edged their bets on the off chance they can do a young Leia movie at some point down the line.

Also, building a viable show around a teenage Leia has it's complications. 90% of what she does is political with only the occasional act of daring do, at least until the events of ANH. That lends itself more towards a political spy thriller than a broader adventure show.

You'd also have to invent a supporting cast beyond just Bail, Captain Antilles and R2.
Winter would be a no-brainier and they'd probably have to cast a young male too, just to cover the demographics and an alien character of some kind for the toy sales. Then you need to come up with a credible reason why they all weren't on the Tantive IV with her. Any yes, "they were all on Alderaan when it blew up" would work, but it's a bit of a heartless, almost off-handed way to dispose of what one would hope be a collection of soon to be fondly loved cartoon characters, no?

 

[Ithekro]

Or make them characters we do see later in the comics or something (Rieekan for example) Winter would be nice to have back. The young male might be difficult, because aside from Leia's insistence to Han that she liked "Nice Men" while on the Falcon, we don't know much of that part of her life outside of Han and Luke, save for possible political/royal courtships.

Alien cast member. I don't know. With the recent part of Aftermath, it probably can't be Jar Jar. Certainly not a Jedi of an sort since Leia seemed to be surprised what one could do when she saw Kanan and Ezra in action. Though if the story starts after those events (roughly three years before Yavin), than anything is possible. I'd hope for Ahsoka, but that's almost impossible. Plus that would definitely upset Leia's real father. A likely alien would be some other Senator...any young men for that matter might be Senator's or Senatorial aides on Coruscant. They could join the Rebellion, or be happy with the Empire and spar wit Leia on the Senate floor. They could go into exile following the disbanding of the Senate, or be executed by the Empire....or remain loyal for that matter.

 

[Christopher]

Also, building a viable show around a teenage Leia has it's complications. 90% of what she does is political with only the occasional act of daring do, at least until the events of ANH. That lends itself more towards a political spy thriller than a broader adventure show.

You'd also have to invent a supporting cast beyond just Bail, Captain Antilles and R2.

Well, I wasn't suggesting a show that was just about Leia. I just figured that Rebels would be a more direct prequel to ANH, that characters like Leia, Bail, Vader, and Tarkin would be followed regularly along with whatever other characters they used -- and maybe occasionally dropping in on Tatooine to reveal how Luke became acquainted with "Old Ben" Kenobi, say, or showing the odd misadventure of a certain Corellian scoundrel. I wasn't expecting something quite as anthology-like as The Clone Wars, but something with a similarly broad scope, following various separate, occasionally overlapping character threads in parallel rather than focusing tightly on a single group of entirely new characters.

 

[Reverend]

Or make them characters we do see later in the comics or something (Rieekan for example)

This is kind of the problem. The only males we know her to be friends with around this time are a bunch of old farts like Willard, Dodanna and presumably Rieekan. We know Breha and Mon were there too, but in a way this compounds the problem of most of her social circle being of an older generation. An abundance of mentor figures but not a lot of contemporaries. This is why Winter, or a similar female companion would be something of a must IMO.

The young male might be difficult, because aside from Leia's insistence to Han that she liked "Nice Men" while on the Falcon, we don't know much of that part of her life outside of Han and Luke, save for possible political/royal courtships.

He need not be a love interest, so I wouldn't hinge it on that. A young officer on her senate security detail might work. I think it's safe to say that regardless of any potential romance one way or the other, it's best to avoid anything resembling a Han Solo type character.

Alien cast member. I don't know. With the recent part of Aftermath, it probably can't be Jar Jar. Certainly not a Jedi of an sort since Leia seemed to be surprised what one could do when she saw Kanan and Ezra in action. Though if the story starts after those events (roughly three years before Yavin), than anything is possible. I'd hope for Ahsoka, but that's almost impossible. Plus that would definitely upset Leia's real father. A likely alien would be some other Senator...any young men for that matter might be Senator's or Senatorial aides on Coruscant. They could join the Rebellion, or be happy with the Empire and spar wit Leia on the Senate floor. They could go into exile following the disbanding of the Senate, or be executed by the Empire....or remain loyal for that matter.

A non-human Imperial loyalist would be a refreshing choice in-and-of itself. Using a classic species seems wise from a branding PoV but in-universe I think you've be hard pressed to sell that since I'm pretty sure most of those are from the Outer Rim IIRC which wouldn't make them likely candidates for various reasons. Do any notable races come from the core or mid-rim and are human enough to be relatable as a major character?

Had she not already appeared in 'Rebels' I would have liked Ahsoka as a sort of governess/nanny figure, but as things stand I don't think that could work.

 

[Ithekro]

If they go the renewed sow route rather than a fourth season, you might get that.


Duro are a Core World species I think.

 

[kirk55555]

So, what are Mandolorians meant to be? Isn't the only comparator the old EU stuff, which no longer applies?

Are you wanting the old stuff to be "recanonised"?

Nope, I'm not waiting for anything to be "recanonized". I've come to terms with the fact that the mandalorians were ruined by TCW cartoon, and we'll never see what I consider the real mandalorians again. So I just hate the canon "mandalorians" and that won't be changing. The canon ones are generic warriors, when they aren't the possibly racist pacifists who still somehow had warriors somewhere because Filoni is an indecisive doofus. The worst official Star Wars anything in my opinion is the Mandalore storyline in TCW (and I'm including the Holiday Special in that statement), and outside of at least having mandalorians in armor and fighting Rebels hasn't improved on what TCW ruined.

As for what they're meant to be? The "you love it or hate it" Republic Commando series is what I consider mandalorians to be, and they basically have no connection to TCW/Rebels version except they both wear armor. To be fair, even if I didn't love that book series the TCW mandalorians were idiotic to the point of being infuriating even if they were decanonizing a part of SW I love. Rebels mandalorians are so generic, boring and cliche I'm pretty sure someone who has never seen a single Star Wars thing in their life could have written the Rebels episodes if they were told "write a story about standard space warriors" and we wouldn't have seen a big difference content wise.

But, yeah, that's about all I have to say about that. I hate what I consider fake mandalorians, and I'll never not hate them. They're irredeemable at this point. I'm attempting to watch Rebels despite that, mostly by ignoring the stuff or in the future probably just skipping any episode with "mandalorians" completely.

And there we go.

God forbid I answer someone's direct question I honestly wasn't planning on talking about it, but I was specifically asked about it, so I did. I'm not going to ignore someone asking me something because some people don't like my opinion, I was just not planning to restate my opinion in full without prompting. But, I was prompted, so there you go.

 

[JD]

Considering they just started shooting a young Han movie, it's a safe bet the story group edged their bets on the off chance they can do a young Leia movie at some point down the line.

Well, I was talking more about instead of Rebels. When did they first start talking about the Han movie?

Also, building a viable show around a teenage Leia has it's complications. 90% of what she does is political with only the occasional act of daring do, at least until the events of ANH. That lends itself more towards a political spy thriller than a broader adventure show.

I think they could have probably found a way to have her going off on bigger adventures without breaking the canon.

You'd also have to invent a supporting cast beyond just Bail, Captain Antilles and R2.
Winter would be a no-brainier and they'd probably have to cast a young male too, just to cover the demographics and an alien character of some kind for the toy sales. Then you need to come up with a credible reason why they all weren't on the Tantive IV with her. Any yes, "they were all on Alderaan when it blew up" would work, but it's a bit of a heartless, almost off-handed way to dispose of what one would hope be a collection of soon to be fondly loved cartoon characters, no?

They invented an entirely new cast for Rebels, so I don't see creating this as a problem. They could always come up with some reason to split them up without killing them off.
I would love to see Winter brought into the new canon.

 

[Tallguy]

Well, I was talking more about instead of Rebels. When did they first start talking about the Han movie?

I'd imagine it was as George was signing paperwork to Disney. Maybe before.

 

[Reverend]

Well, I was talking more about instead of Rebels. When did they first start talking about the Han movie?

Internally? Supposedly right off the bat in Oct 2012 when Lucas started talking with Kennedy about the hand-over, which is pretty much when the initial concept for 'Rebels' was being kicked around.

"In October of 2012, I got a call from [Lucasfilm President] Kathy [Kennedy] and she said, "We're going to do some more movies. Can you come up and talk to George [Lucas] and I?" I went up and George had sort of roughed-out many movies — not just the new trilogy but other movies, the spinoffs and things. I wasn't sure I wanted to do anything, but I said, "I could do the Han Solo movie" — because he's my favorite character. Then they hired me to consult on "Episode VII." And within weeks suddenly Disney owned the thing and everyone was shocked."

I think they could have probably found a way to have her going off on bigger adventures without breaking the canon.

Strictly speaking it's not so much an issue on continuity as it is what makes sense for the character. Remember that being a Senator isn't a cover, she really is the representative for an entire sector of space with potentially hundreds of worlds counting on her being competent in the role. Spying for and aiding the rebellion is something she has to fit around that lest ISB mark her as a traitor. So like I said, it just doesn't make sense as an adventure show. It'd have to be some variation of political espionage thriller.

They invented an entirely new cast for Rebels, so I don't see creating this as a problem. They could always come up with some reason to split them up without killing them off.

Inventing the cast isn't the problem, it's making it seem credible that this indispensable group of people are suddenly not so indispensable the second the opening crawl of ANH happens. And sure, it's easy to dispose of them, but to do it in a way that's satisfying for the narrative is very tricky. I mean imagine if in the last episode of Rebels, we see their side of the battle of Scarif then Hera says "now let's go to Alderaan and wait for the princess to deliver those plans!" Jump to hyperspace. Fanfare. Roll Credits.
I mean it'd be funny on one level but I think we can all agree it'd feel very back-handed towards the characters and the fans would hit the roof!

I would love to see Winter brought into the new canon.

Me too. Though more as Targeter: Rebel agent and bodyguard for the Princess of Alderaan. Than Winter: long suffering and fairly inept babysitter for a bunch of toddlers who either wander off on their own or get kidnapped every other week.

 

[JD]

Internally? Supposedly right off the bat in Oct 2012 when Lucas started talking with Kennedy about the hand-over, which is pretty much when the initial concept for 'Rebels' was being kicked around.

Ok, I wasn't sure if they idea of "A Star Wars Story" movies focused on the main Original Trilogy characters was part of the plan all along, or a more recent idea. I could see saving them for movies in that case.

​

Strictly speaking it's not so much an issue on continuity as it is what makes sense for the character. Remember that being a Senator isn't a cover, she really is the representative for an entire sector of space with potentially hundreds of worlds counting on her being competent in the role. Spying for and aiding the rebellion is something she has to fit around that lest ISB mark her as a traitor. So like I said, it just doesn't make sense as an adventure show. It'd have to be some variation of political espionage thriller.

I have to admit, I tend to forget that she is actually a Senator and not just a member of the Rebellion.

Inventing the cast isn't the problem, it's making it seem credible that this indispensable group of people are suddenly not so indispensable the second the opening crawl of ANH happens. And sure, it's easy to dispose of them, but to do it in a way that's satisfying for the narrative is very tricky. I mean imagine if in the last episode of Rebels, we see their side of the battle of Scarif then Hera says "now let's go to Alderaan and wait for the princess to deliver those plans!" Jump to hyperspace. Fanfare. Roll Credits.
I mean it'd be funny on one level but I think we can all agree it'd feel very back-handed towards the characters and the fans would hit the roof!

I can see where that could be an issue. I guess my thought was just that they could be put together for whatever the main arc of the show is and then when that's resolved they would all go off their own ways.