Star Wars Rebels Season One (spoilers)

[Mark_Nguyen]

Dunno about small, but at least the docking bay still sorta looks like it could handle a CR90. Probably more that something THAT massive doesn't seem to have enough crew scurrying about to get in the way of people performing a prison break.

I was a little surprised that the artistic license in this show smoothed out the star destroyers like they did. I hardly think it'd be a matter of computer rendering power these days - the Ghost, CR90 and other ships seem to have a similar poly count to the much larger destroyer model, despite the latter's obvious hugeness. I"m not really complaining, but I was hoping to see something closer to what we got with the Venator class in CW compared to the CG model seen in ROTS.

Mark

 

[Christopher]

^Maybe the smoother rendering is a design choice, part of the more cartoony look.

 

[Rat Boy]

The destroyers do remind me of the artistic style choices made with the Family Guy Star Wars episodes.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Does the Star Destroyers seem a bit small to anyone. They were made almost federation smooth due to CGI concerns, but also seem a bit scaled down.

I was a little surprised that the artistic license in this show smoothed out the star destroyers like they did. I hardly think it'd be a matter of computer rendering power these days - the Ghost, CR90 and other ships seem to have a similar poly count to the much larger destroyer model, despite the latter's obvious hugeness.

The smoother surface is not a CGI issue, it's a deliberate stylistic choice to pay homage to the Ralph McQuarrie Star Destroyer concept seen in the collage below. Many of the character, planet, and ship/vehicle designs on the show are based on McQuarrie's early or alternate concept art.

As far as the size goes, it looks about right to me, though with this being a variant Star Destroyer (possibly an early prototype of the Imperial Class SD) it's possible it's slightly smaller, but not by much. They can use the CGI to instantly cross-reference the sizes of the various ships (see size comparison images below).

(click to enlarge)


Source for article quotes and most of the images:
http://www.toonzone.net/2013/10/nycc-2013-star-wars-rebels-panel/

 

[Ithekro]

Basically it is the Imperial-class Star Destroyer (Mark One) - ISD Devastator.

We are use to seeing the Imperial-class Star Destroyer (Mark Two) that was used heavily in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. The Mark One was only really seen in A New Hope (from below mostly). (ISD Avenger)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Meh. These aren't even OT TIE Fighters, since the wing proportions are way off, so I'm not expecting the Star Destroyers (or anything else) to match up either. I'm way past expecting that!

C-3PO doesn't even look like C-3PO.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

^ Yeah, but did you see the comparison to the McQuarrie design and the comments from the creators? It's not as if they were trying for the standard ISD-1 or 2 and messed it up. They clearly deliberately based it on that design, with identical surface features.

Basically it is the Imperial-class Star Destroyer (Mark One) - ISD Devastator.

It's similar, and the conning tower is modeled on the Imperial-1, but it's far smoother surface detailing, less greebled engines, and the grooves on the side are filled in except for the small slit between them. It's distinct enough to be an earlier prototype or a variant ISD-1 rather than the production model.

 

[Ithekro]

The TIE's are also somewhat based on the Kenner toys.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The TIE's are also somewhat based on the Kenner toys.

Yeah, I'm always thinking of that when I look it, before thinking of McQuarrie's artwork based on Johnston's concepts.

 

[Ithekro]

Someone mentioned the later McQuarrie artwork was used for the Kenner toy (or he used the toy for his later artwork).

The mention is that the ANH TIE fighters have the pilots enter from the rear while the Rebels and Kenner TIEs have the openning on top. Of course we never actually saw a TIE pilot get into or out of a TIE in the films, but the plans and designs shows indications that the hatch is behind the seat. However how the fighters are shown docking to the transports and on the ground in Rebels, it is much easier to get in from the top like the Kenner toys.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Someone mentioned the later McQuarrie artwork was used for the Kenner toy (or he used the toy for his later artwork).

The mention is that the ANH TIE fighters have the pilots enter from the rear while the Rebels and Kenner TIEs have the openning on top. Of course we never actually saw a TIE pilot get into or out of a TIE in the films, but the plans and designs shows indications that the hatch is behind the seat. However how the fighters are shown docking to the transports and on the ground in Rebels, it is much easier to get in from the top like the Kenner toys.

The vintage MPC model of Darth Vader's TIE Fighter (circa 1978) also opened from the top (there was originally no licensed model of the regular TIE Fighter).

^ Yeah, but did you see the comparison to the McQuarrie design and the comments from the creators? It's not as if they were trying for the standard ISD-1 or 2 and messed it up. They clearly deliberately based it on that design, with identical surface features.

OK, I've seen the Toon Zone article now that you cited just upthread, if that's what you're referring to here. I deleted my second to last post, because that article answers at least some of my questions straight out.

So, it says that the Rebels TIE is an earlier version of the OT TIE, which explains the wings being out of proportion. And the Rebels Star Destroyer is apparently intended to match whatever ship Darth Vader was in at the start of EpIV, at least more or less, if I read it right. In these cases, I suppose we are to take what we see literally. I wonder whether the same applies for the Blockade Runner, but I assume it would.

When it comes to stormtrooper armor, TIE pilots, and other characters, those obviously have oversized helmets, so the proportions can't be taken literally. I guess in that case we have to accept that it's somewhat stylized. 3PO is certainly stylized.

So, the ships are to be taken literally, and the characters are to be assumed to be somewhat stylized?!? That's simple enough, I guess.

 

[Ithekro]

Animation styles for characters tend towards oversized eyes and thus heads. So helmets need to be larger to fit over those heads without clipping uses for the computers.

As for C-3PO, it has been a while but is he styled after his design in Droids? That would be set in this similar time period.

 

[publiusr]

Does the Star Destroyers seem a bit small to anyone. They were made almost federation smooth due to CGI concerns, but also seem a bit scaled down.

I was a little surprised that the artistic license in this show smoothed out the star destroyers like they did. I hardly think it'd be a matter of computer rendering power these days - the Ghost, CR90 and other ships seem to have a similar poly count to the much larger destroyer model, despite the latter's obvious hugeness.

The smoother surface is not a CGI issue, it's a deliberate stylistic choice to pay homage to the Ralph McQuarrie Star Destroyer concept seen in the collage below. Many of the character, planet, and ship/vehicle designs on the show are based on McQuarrie's early or alternate concept art.

As far as the size goes, it looks about right to me, though with this being a variant Star Destroyer (possibly an early prototype of the Imperial Class SD) it's possible it's slightly smaller, but not by much. They can use the CGI to instantly cross-reference the sizes of the various ships (see size comparison images below).

(click to enlarge)


Source for article quotes and most of the images:
http://www.toonzone.net/2013/10/nycc-2013-star-wars-rebels-panel/

They have a very nice Die Cast Star Destroyer out
http://www.disneystore.com/vehicles...estroyer-die-cast-vehicle/mp/1364606/1000268/

But the McQuarrie version looks like it would make for a nice oversized toy--like the big X-wings and Falcon offerings. The smoother feature making for easier castings.


This thing, on the other hand, looks awful.
http://www.disneystore.com/vehicles...troyer-play-set-by-hasbro/mp/1364684/1000268/

 

[Christopher]

The mention is that the ANH TIE fighters have the pilots enter from the rear while the Rebels and Kenner TIEs have the openning on top. Of course we never actually saw a TIE pilot get into or out of a TIE in the films, but the plans and designs shows indications that the hatch is behind the seat. However how the fighters are shown docking to the transports and on the ground in Rebels, it is much easier to get in from the top like the Kenner toys.

I remember having a model kit of Vader's TIE fighter when I was a kid, and it had a top hatch. (I also had a C-3PO model kit.)

But seeing characters in Rebels get into TIEs through the top hatch, I realize how much better that design works for a toy than for a real vehicle. Having to jump down six feet just to get into your plane is a pretty lousy design. What if you land wrong and twist your ankle?

It would work much better if TIEs were designed to operate in free fall, but artificial gravity seems pretty ubiquitous in Star Wars. And Rebels shows them operating near ground level pretty regularly. Which doesn't seem right to me, since they have the look of craft intended for space alone -- just spherical hulls with big panels attached, no trace of aerodynamics.

As for C-3PO, it has been a while but is he styled after his design in Droids? That would be set in this similar time period.

I think he's just stylized to resemble the original McQuarrie concept art.

 

[fireproof78]

They have a very nice Die Cast Star Destroyer out
http://www.disneystore.com/vehicles...estroyer-die-cast-vehicle/mp/1364606/1000268/

But the McQuarrie version looks like it would make for a nice oversized toy--like the big X-wings and Falcon offerings. The smoother feature making for easier castings.


This thing, on the other hand, looks awful.
http://www.disneystore.com/vehicles...troyer-play-set-by-hasbro/mp/1364684/1000268/

The diecast models are almost always designed as more detailed oriented casts, like higher detailed Micro Machines of old. They last forever too, as I still have a Trade Federation battleship that looks decent after nearly 20 years ().

Also, just to be fair, the second toy is from a whole line design to launch ships or figures at each other in mock combat, so it really is not a proper comparison.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Animation styles for characters tend towards oversized eyes and thus heads. So helmets need to be larger to fit over those heads without clipping uses for the computers.

As for C-3PO, it has been a while but is he styled after his design in Droids? That would be set in this similar time period.

I can't comment on Droids, because I never watched it.

As for the clipping, I don't think it's exactly that, because that can be controlled arbitrarily and, so, it's not per se a constraint that needs to be worked around. It's therefore more of a creator's choice, for uniformity with all the other characters, and probably especially so it's less jarring to depict characters whose heads we can ordinarily see should they ever put a helmet on, like Ezra did when he was hiding aboard the Star Destroyer in "Spark of Rebellion" (in other words, so their heads don't spontaneously shrink for no reason when they put these helmets on).

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The mention is that the ANH TIE fighters have the pilots enter from the rear while the Rebels and Kenner TIEs have the openning on top. Of course we never actually saw a TIE pilot get into or out of a TIE in the films, but the plans and designs shows indications that the hatch is behind the seat. However how the fighters are shown docking to the transports and on the ground in Rebels, it is much easier to get in from the top like the Kenner toys.

I remember having a model kit of Vader's TIE fighter when I was a kid, and it had a top hatch. (I also had a C-3PO model kit.)

But seeing characters in Rebels get into TIEs through the top hatch, I realize how much better that design works for a toy than for a real vehicle. Having to jump down six feet just to get into your plane is a pretty lousy design. What if you land wrong and twist your ankle?

TIE Fighters have always been boarded through the roof access hatch, even in the OT and Special Editions. You can see the TIE ceiling racks in the background of the Death Star and Star Destroyer hangars when Vader's and Palpatine's shuttles are shown landing and Han runs into a company of Stormtroopers training. Vader's TIE Advanced X1 can't be boarded from a rear hatch because there's an extra structure there for the hyperdrive, yet both it and the standard TIE have an identical roof hatch, as seen in the OT, which all official publication list as the access hatch.

The rack storage and ladder boarding system is essentially like the skyhook system that was used on the USS Akron and USS Macon airship aircraft carrier tests and subsequent proposals of that nature.

(click to enlarge)


As far as having to "jump down six feet," you wouldn't have to, because they have ladders and stairs that extend down from the overhead walkways into the cockpits for boarding. You can see how it's down in the awesome anime-style TIE fighter video below:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tBM2ZfncoU&feature=youtu.be[/yt]

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ How is it that I've never seen that Ralph McQuarrie painting in the upper-right corner (showing Vader's TIE with an open hatch)!?! That's magnificent!

 

[Christopher]

As far as having to "jump down six feet," you wouldn't have to, because they have ladders and stairs that extend down from the overhead walkways into the cockpits for boarding.

Which is exactly why I found it so silly that Ezra et al. did just jump down into the TIE cockpit in the season finale. It was seeing it done that way in the episode that made me think "No, wait, that can't be the way you're supposed to get into those things."

 

[Cutter John]

As far as having to "jump down six feet," you wouldn't have to, because they have ladders and stairs that extend down from the overhead walkways into the cockpits for boarding.

Which is exactly why I found it so silly that Ezra et al. did just jump down into the TIE cockpit in the season finale. It was seeing it done that way in the episode that made me think "No, wait, that can't be the way you're supposed to get into those things."

Maybe they only deploy the boarding ladders before launch?