Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens

[fireproof78]

Don't get me wrong, I despised the senate scenes in TPM. The story came to a complete halt when they happened. It was basically Lucas shouting LOOK AT THIS SCENE THIS IS IMPORTANT HISTORY LESSON. They really could have been massively trimmed.

The senate scenes were an example of poor scripting hurting an important moment that sets the stage for the rest of the series--it was that important. Palpatine's orchestrated chaos begins there--not the man sneering and the lightsaber fights obsessed over by the extreme SW geeks.

There wasn't any part of that romance that was even remotely credible. I almost would have preferred if we never saw any of it, and it was only revealed at the end that they had been secretly hooking up and Padme was now pregnant with the twins.

Instead of trying to turn it into some "epic, tragic romance" that just didn't work at all.

For the original films, Lucas took many sources of inspiration for the basic story, but in the prequels he was over the top, hitting audiences over the head in "sourcing" classical stories, all to sell the stillborn idea of Anakin being some kind, loving hero who falls from grace.

The problem in that is in order for Anakin to turn in the "teh worstest evil EVAH," it could not be believable to have that happen overnight, so almost from the start, Anakin had to be a self-obsessed, violent asshole, and that personality cannot stand side by side with some great, likable hero, and there's no Sith manipulation that would warrant an overnight change, anyway.

Then, there's the amateur show romance, which--as you said--just did not work at all. Padme's motivations were expressed like Lucas did not know how any woman thinks/feels at all. Moreover, aside from Portman's being cast in the series at a time when she was sick eye-candy for loser men still thinking about her role in The Professional, her so-called abilities left much to be desired. Whether it was the horrible "regal" queen voice, or her other whining voice, Portman added nothing to the prequels.

Well, I guess scenes of her in outfits or the bun hairdo meant to evoke memories of Leia made it all worthwhile.

Padme's hair went kind of overboard, in my opinion.

The Senate scenes could have been interesting, especially if there was far more political dealing that I think Lucas was trying to emulate from things like Dune. But, as it was, it felt like it dragged the story to a halt.

Also, the romance never convinced me that they loved each other in the way that they behaved. I guess I get what Lucas was trying for, but it didn't land for me.

As for Anakin's change to evil, it didn't work either. I mean, at least in creating him to be someone who I don't want to see fall to the Dark Side. Or even someone who is like Macbeth who ends up becoming evil despite initial success. The idea of hubris featured in Greek tragedy and Anakin's fall came about because he became so powerful that no one else knows what to do.

Something like that.

 

[DWF]

Frank Herbert tried to claim that ANH was taken from Dune but that didn't go anywhere. I really don't any similarities between Dune and the senate scene in TPM. And I didn't think it was really focused on that much, the scne in TPM had no real ending to it.

 

[DWF]

We may have a runtime... 136 minutes. That would make it the third longest behind Clones and Sith.

The Phantom Menace - 133 minutes
Attack of the Clones - 142 minutes
Revenge of the Sith - 140 minutes
A New Hope - 121 minutes
The Empire Strikes Back - 124 minutes
Return of the Jedi - 131 minutes
The Force Awakens - 136 minutes

(Not really sure if this is news. It is trivia though.)

I suspected TFA would end up being 130+ minutes, the length could end up making the movie rather clunky. Abrams Star Trek movies move rather well until it come time for character development, I hope that's not the case this time.

 

[JD]

I don't mind the Senate scenes in the Prequels. The Anakin/Padme romance was probably the weakest part of the Prequels. I like AoTC because of pretty much all of the rest of the movie other than the romance. I do think the stuff with Padme and her family would have helped, it did work pretty well in the book. If nothing else, it at least gives some nice character development and backstory for Padme.

 

[fireproof78]

Frank Herbert tried to claim that ANH was taken from Dune but that didn't go anywhere. I really don't any similarities between Dune and the senate scene in TPM. And I didn't think it was really focused on that much, the scne in TPM had no real ending to it.

Well, I wasn't really implying a particular scene or influence, beyond superficial. I'm sure someone could make the argument that there are some connections but that's not really my point.

The larger point is the concept of politics being used as a force (no pun intended) to manipulate the galaxy to a specific end. That might not have been the intention, but it was what it reminded me of. Regardless, the Senate scene felt really wasted and somewhat confusing, giving the political set up of the Republic.

We may have a runtime... 136 minutes. That would make it the third longest behind Clones and Sith.

The Phantom Menace - 133 minutes
Attack of the Clones - 142 minutes
Revenge of the Sith - 140 minutes
A New Hope - 121 minutes
The Empire Strikes Back - 124 minutes
Return of the Jedi - 131 minutes
The Force Awakens - 136 minutes

(Not really sure if this is news. It is trivia though.)

I suspected TFA would end up being 130+ minutes, the length could end up making the movie rather clunky. Abrams Star Trek movies move rather well until it come time for character development, I hope that's not the case this time.

I really don't understand the argument that Abrams Trek lack character development

I also think that the run time will be sufficient to establish the new players and such in the SW universe.

 

[DWF]

Frank Herbert tried to claim that ANH was taken from Dune but that didn't go anywhere. I really don't any similarities between Dune and the senate scene in TPM. And I didn't think it was really focused on that much, the scne in TPM had no real ending to it.

Well, I wasn't really implying a particular scene or influence, beyond superficial. I'm sure someone could make the argument that there are some connections but that's not really my point.

The larger point is the concept of politics being used as a force (no pun intended) to manipulate the galaxy to a specific end. That might not have been the intention, but it was what it reminded me of. Regardless, the Senate scene felt really wasted and somewhat confusing, giving the political set up of the Republic.

We may have a runtime... 136 minutes. That would make it the third longest behind Clones and Sith.

The Phantom Menace - 133 minutes
Attack of the Clones - 142 minutes
Revenge of the Sith - 140 minutes
A New Hope - 121 minutes
The Empire Strikes Back - 124 minutes
Return of the Jedi - 131 minutes
The Force Awakens - 136 minutes

(Not really sure if this is news. It is trivia though.)

I suspected TFA would end up being 130+ minutes, the length could end up making the movie rather clunky. Abrams Star Trek movies move rather well until it come time for character development, I hope that's not the case this time.

I really don't understand the argument that Abrams Trek lack character development

I also think that the run time will be sufficient to establish the new players and such in the SW universe.

I said noting about a lack of character development, it's just that the pace of the Star Trek movies slow to a crawl when it happens and TFA is some ten minutes longer than the Star Trek movies are.

I thought the senate scenes really helped to set up the Republic.

 

[fireproof78]

Frank Herbert tried to claim that ANH was taken from Dune but that didn't go anywhere. I really don't any similarities between Dune and the senate scene in TPM. And I didn't think it was really focused on that much, the scne in TPM had no real ending to it.

Well, I wasn't really implying a particular scene or influence, beyond superficial. I'm sure someone could make the argument that there are some connections but that's not really my point.

The larger point is the concept of politics being used as a force (no pun intended) to manipulate the galaxy to a specific end. That might not have been the intention, but it was what it reminded me of. Regardless, the Senate scene felt really wasted and somewhat confusing, giving the political set up of the Republic.

I suspected TFA would end up being 130+ minutes, the length could end up making the movie rather clunky. Abrams Star Trek movies move rather well until it come time for character development, I hope that's not the case this time.

I really don't understand the argument that Abrams Trek lack character development

I also think that the run time will be sufficient to establish the new players and such in the SW universe.

I said noting about a lack of character development, it's just that the pace of the Star Trek movies slow to a crawl when it happens and TFA is some ten minutes longer than the Star Trek movies are.

I thought the senate scenes really helped to set up the Republic.

Ah, I misunderstood. Thank you for the clarification

Also, I enjoyed the pacing of the character moments in Star Trek mostly because the pace of the film was too fast, in places, in my opinion.

The Senate scenes are a mixed bag, for me, but most of it feels poorly set up with a lot of unanswered questions. Why did Valorum send the Jedi in secret? Why was a vote of "no confidence" the "only" choice? Why did the Trade Federation have a representative in the Senate at all!?

Sure, the Senate scenes set up the Republic, but it makes so sense. It feels like a plot convenient system set up by Palpatine to take over the galaxy. The bones for a political system are there but the flesh feels lacking.

 

[davejames]

The problem in that is in order for Anakin to turn in the "teh worstest evil EVAH," it could not be believable to have that happen overnight, so almost from the start, Anakin had to be a self-obsessed, violent asshole, and that personality cannot stand side by side with some great, likable hero, and there's no Sith manipulation that would warrant an overnight change, anyway.

I don't know, I think we could have also seen something where Anakin starts out as a genuinely good and honorable guy who is forced to make a difficult decision somewhere down the line in order to save Padme, and the guilt over that mixed with anger at the Jedi for putting him in that position in the first place, makes him susceptible to the Dark Side. Which Palpatine then takes fuller advantage of.

Even if that might come across a bit forced, at least we would have had a more likeable Anakin to start with, who would believably romance someone like Padme and whose slide to the Dark Side would actually be tragic to watch.

I think the knee-jerk reaction of "they were dead all along!" (Which is incorrect) ruined it for alot of fans. But the finale was really more of a "where are they now?" re-acquaintance with the characters in the afterlife. No, it didn't wrap up the mythos that had been created, but it did give a nice completion to the character's arcs.

I really think the message of the finale was that it's not the journey, but the people you share it with that are important.

It made me misty-eyed.

Agreed. I definitely thought the final couple seasons had their issues and dragged a bit, but the finale itself wrapped things up pretty darn nicely. I think the real issue for people (much like with BSG) is that they just didn't care at all for the more mystical direction the show took in the final years, and would have rathered everything stayed a lot more grounded.

In any case though, when it comes to a downturn in quality and the final seasons of a show, Lost doesn't come anywhere close to being as bad as something like, say, Dexter.

 

[Beagleman]

Agreed. I definitely thought the final couple seasons had their issues and dragged a bit, but the finale itself wrapped things up pretty darn nicely. I think the real issue for people (much like with BSG) is that they just didn't care at all for the more mystical direction the show took in the final years, and would have rathered everything stayed a lot more grounded.

In any case though, when it comes to a downturn in quality and the final seasons of a show, Lost doesn't come anywhere close to being as bad as something like, say, Dexter.

It's kinda funny to me, seeing all the hate on the net, the finales of Lost and BSG are some of my favorites. And agreed, Dexter's was abysmal.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I liked the end of Lost.

Amen. It was just about perfect. I am so tired of hearing people complain about the ending.

 

[JD]

I loved the Lost finale. I know they didn't address everything, but I wasn't that concerned about the mysteries. I liked the characters and the overall story, and I thought they were tied up really well. I loved the whole "sideways-flashes" and the idea of everyone reuniting in the afterlife.

 

[davejames]

Sounds like we are indeed getting a new trailer on Monday, as well as (thankfully) a new logo.

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/10/star-wars-the-force-awakens-trailer-and-logo-coming-this-monday/

 

[Jedi_Master]

I loved the Lost finale. I know they didn't address everything, but I wasn't that concerned about the mysteries. I liked the characters and the overall story, and I thought they were tied up really well. I loved the whole "sideways-flashes" and the idea of everyone reuniting in the afterlife.

It actually collapsed an at times needlessly complex story into a very simple one:

The Island is special

The Island has throughout its existence needed someone to defend it, and someone to help the defender of the Island.

It has special stuff that comes from a special hole.

If you spend any significant time on the Island you are affected by its specialness and therefore a part of you will always exist outside of the normal bounds of space time, drawn to others like you who also have been affected by the Island's specialness.

 

[Booji]

Sounds like we are indeed getting a new trailer on Monday, as well as (thankfully) a new logo.

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/10/star-wars-the-force-awakens-trailer-and-logo-coming-this-monday/

Midnight screening pre-sale tickets will also be going on sale Monday

 

[JD]

Edited the post, since others are already posting about what I just did.

 

[RoJoHen]

I loved the Lost finale. I know they didn't address everything, but I wasn't that concerned about the mysteries. I liked the characters and the overall story, and I thought they were tied up really well. I loved the whole "sideways-flashes" and the idea of everyone reuniting in the afterlife.

If the afterlife is real, I hope it's just like LOST's afterlife.

"This is the place you made so that you could find each other again."

I love it.

 

[Campe]

^This.

LOST's ending was amazing. Haters gonna hate.

 

[DWF]

The problem in that is in order for Anakin to turn in the "teh worstest evil EVAH," it could not be believable to have that happen overnight, so almost from the start, Anakin had to be a self-obsessed, violent asshole, and that personality cannot stand side by side with some great, likable hero, and there's no Sith manipulation that would warrant an overnight change, anyway.

I don't know, I think we could have also seen something where Anakin starts out as a genuinely good and honorable guy who is forced to make a difficult decision somewhere down the line in order to save Padme, and the guilt over that mixed with anger at the Jedi for putting him in that position in the first place, makes him susceptible to the Dark Side. Which Palpatine then takes fuller advantage of.

Even if that might come across a bit forced, at least we would have had a more likeable Anakin to start with, who would believably romance someone like Padme and whose slide to the Dark Side would actually be tragic to watch.

Anakin did start out as a goor person, his own mother said it best, he gave with no thought of himself. But by teh time AOTC Palpatine had ten years to work on him and it showed, Aankin wasn't a normal detached Jedi and he was a typical teenager that we've seen in other movies. And he did make a bad choice but he was able to redeem himself in the end.

 

[Mach5]

 

[BillJ]