Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens

[fireproof78]

The Sith had grown so powerful they apparently managed to manipulate the force as a whole to create the goddamned Jedi Jesus for them to corrupt. They weren't working within the natural order of things, they were throwing rocks in the pond and diverting the river for their own ends.

Well, at least that's what Sidious and Plagueis believe in the now decanonized novel Darth Plagueis.

At the risk of starting up the crazy argument again, ROTS and the PT generally (and the OT for that matter) really say nothing one way or the other. Nor do they imply anything, where by imply I mean necessitate.

The PT and the OT are perfectly consistent with either idea, on the one hand of Anakin having been created as a result of Plagueis's life-creating experiments, and on the other of Anakin's creation not being such a result and instead having (what are as far as we presently know) purely mysterious causes.

Certainly, the Darth Plagueis novel was one of the brighter spots of the old EU, but frankly I didn't find it fully satisfying either. In any case, that was only one perspective on Anakin's birth. Based on what's been revealed in The Clone Wars, such as in the Mortis arc, no doubt there are other differing perspectives. Perhaps the new canon going forward will weigh in on the matter.

Yeah, I always found it a dubious claim regarding Plagueis, especially afterwards when Sidiuous is all "Only my master really knew it, but we can figure it out together." Then I got suspicious.

I have no doubt that the Sith can use the Dark Side to manipulate the Force and cloud the light side users abilities. But, I have a tough time believing that the Sith can create life without corrupting it in some way.

That's just my take though.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

According to some of the BTS material (I think mainly the Making of book), in earlier scripts, Sidious's involvement in Anakin's creation is much more clear, and Palpatine even has a sort of "I am your father" moment. Lucas felt he didn't want to repeat the ESB twist and cut it.

Glad that was dropped along with Han Solo being raised by Wookies and Dooku being responsible for the sandpeople kidnapping Anakin's mother.

 

[InklingStar]

According to some of the BTS material (I think mainly the Making of book), in earlier scripts, Sidious's involvement in Anakin's creation is much more clear, and Palpatine even has a sort of "I am your father" moment. Lucas felt he didn't want to repeat the ESB twist and cut it.

Glad that was dropped along with Han Solo being raised by Wookies and Dooku being responsible for the sandpeople kidnapping Anakin's mother.

Small world syndrome... it was bad enough that C3PO was built by a young Anakin. (I say that as a fan of the prequels, generally.) The problem goes all the way back to RotJ where Leia just so happens to be Luke's long-lost sister.

 

[Mike Farley]

Some got Bath Towels and others got VHS players.

GEORGE:
Bath Towel
VHS
Bath Towel
Bath Towel
Bath Towel
MOST of these are Bath Towels

 

[Jedi_Master]

I am interested in seeing if the new films delve into the more deeper aspects of the Force. Probably not, but hey anything's possible.

Yoda never said that the Dark Side was an abomination, just that it was quicker, easier, more aggressive.

 

[Sindatur]

The Emperor uses himself as a symbol and a victim of "the Jedi uprising" to generate support and public sympathy for his newly-expanded and dictatorial powers and to smooth over the rough edges of his transformation of the Republic into the Galactic Empire. The Clone Wars have also just ended with a Republic victory so much of the galactic population is just glad that more than three years of warfare and decades of political corruption have finally come to their conclusions.

Palpatine never told his subjects he was a Dark Lord of the Sith, nor did he have to. To many of them he was a beloved figure who'd brought peace to a galaxy in turmoil and established order after many years of accelerating political corruption. Only those closest to the Emperor knew he was much more than just a gifted and cunning politician.

You know, I've often wondered about this. We're accustomed to seeing the Jedi as good guys because they're framed that way, but I sometimes have felt we never got a clear picture on how the Order was perceived by the common people. I know Palpatine had propaganda set up to portray some of the slain Jedi as abusing their powers and needing to be put down for that reason, but it's not often we get more perspective.

I honestly would like to see this, especially since there is an interesting juxtaposition between the PT and the OT. In the OT, Han is dismissive of the Jedi as though they are just a legend (which certainly would be the result of Imperial propaganda) when they were a part of a government that rule the galaxy only 30 years ago

Seriously? Did the Empire so neatly decimate all stories of the Jedi that everyone went *shrug* Guess I just imagined that.

Eh, in 2003, President Bush falsified information to invade Iraq, which drew the fighters currently comprising ISIL there. He killed Saddam Hussein, who although a Tyrant, ruled the status Quo with an Iron fist, and ISIL couldn't grow in that environment.

Now, in 2015, many Conservatives are blaming President Obama for the growth of ISIL, without even mentioning President Bush' hand in it. ISIL never could've developed there without President Bush' actions, yet so many people blame it 100% on President Obama (Yes, if we had stayed with more prescence, ISIL probably wouldn't have developed as they hd, but, President Bush deserves just as much blame for invading and killing Saddam in the first place). Propoganda is a strong opinion former

 

[fireproof78]

You know, I've often wondered about this. We're accustomed to seeing the Jedi as good guys because they're framed that way, but I sometimes have felt we never got a clear picture on how the Order was perceived by the common people. I know Palpatine had propaganda set up to portray some of the slain Jedi as abusing their powers and needing to be put down for that reason, but it's not often we get more perspective.

I honestly would like to see this, especially since there is an interesting juxtaposition between the PT and the OT. In the OT, Han is dismissive of the Jedi as though they are just a legend (which certainly would be the result of Imperial propaganda) when they were a part of a government that rule the galaxy only 30 years ago

Seriously? Did the Empire so neatly decimate all stories of the Jedi that everyone went *shrug* Guess I just imagined that.

Eh, in 2003, President Bush falsified information to invade Iraq, which drew the fighters currently comprising ISIL there. He killed Saddam Hussein, who although a Tyrant, ruled the status Quo with an Iron fist, and ISIL couldn't grow in that environment.

Now, in 2015, many Conservatives are blaming President Obama for the growth of ISIL, without even mentioning President Bush' hand in it. ISIL never could've developed there without President Bush' actions, yet so many people blame it 100% on President Obama (Yes, if we had stayed with more prescence, ISIL probably wouldn't have developed as they hd, but, President Bush deserves just as much blame for invading and killing Saddam in the first place). Propoganda is a strong opinion former

Fair point. Though, Obama did a good job of blaming the financial situation on Bush, so there is that

Again, it goes back to what the popular opinion of the Jedi across the Republic was. Especially after the Clone Wars lasted for three years. Your above example certainly includes fatigue of the public with a war. I can imagine that the state of emergencies, the power grabs by the Senate and Palpatine (a major plot point in the novel but dropped in the film, for the most part) would become fatiguing on the public opinion.

 

[Sindatur]

Fair point. Though, Obama did a good job of blaming the financial situation on Bush, so there is that

Yes, that's another example. President Clinton balanced the Budget (As Conservatives want to do again), which took money out of the Economy, and created the environment that led to the bubbles bursting, by exposing what Corporations were hiding in their balance sheets

 

[Jedi_Master]

What we as observers don't often get to see in the Star Wars Universe is the "regular" people, the Wuhers (the bartender in the Mos Eisley cantina) of the galaxy. Most of those people aren't going to be seriously impacted by a change in galactic government. Sure the taxes will be higher, the crime will be lower or higher, etc. but in the end they won't care all that much.

 

[Mk_Sn]

I'm cautiously optimistic about the film since the second teaser trailer.

 

[fireproof78]

What we as observers don't often get to see in the Star Wars Universe is the "regular" people, the Wuhers (the bartender in the Mos Eisley cantina) of the galaxy. Most of those people aren't going to be seriously impacted by a change in galactic government. Sure the taxes will be higher, the crime will be lower or higher, etc. but in the end they won't care all that much.

I think that is one aspect of the original SW that feels a little more grounded is having the "regular characters" such as Wuher or doesn't care about about galactic politics. He just wants to make money and survive.

Even Han is kind of a common guy in his attitude, but changes over due to circumstances of the story. I guess everyone else, over the years, would forget the Jedi and just not care.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Owen Lars and Beru are certainly common folk.

 

[cooleddie74]

True. They were just the son of a moisture farmer and his girlfriend living quiet and largely uneventful lives on Tatooine until Shmi was released from slavery, Anakin came looking for his mother and baby Luke was placed into their custody for safekeeping.

To the end, Owen and Beru wanted the seasonal harvest to be good, the moisture vaporators working like they were supposed to and for Luke to finish his chores. They were simply victims of something far bigger than themselves.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Also Tatooine's kind of out of the way, and not really part of Republic/Imperial space, as noted in TPM, although there's probably some sort of agreement the Hutts have with them or something "in-universe".

Han's background is a bit more fuzzy, especially with the old EU now non-canon. Is he even Correlian any more?

Chewie's possible skepticism of Obi-Wan ("Boy, you said it, Chewie") is a bit harder to figure in light of ROTS and Clone Wars. Sure, he probably didn't meet Obi-Wan but he knew Yoda and Ashoka.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

We know that Tatooine was not part of the Old Republic, but there is every evidence that Tatooine is claimed by the Empire. Just look at all the stormtroopers everywhere!

An outtake from EpIV:

FIXER​

I keep telling you, the Rebellion is a long way from here. I doubt if the Empire would even fight to keep this system. Believe me Luke, this planet is a big hunk of nothing...​

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Well, the Stormtroopers were probably the detachment Vader ordered from the Star Destroyer, although there are at least two Destroyers in orbit later(Although Vader's Destroyer from the opening presumabely was the one that docked with the Death Star after the Obi-Wan hutt scene). However it could be that they were just coordinating the search or something.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The fact that there were dewback-riding stormtroopers pretty much means that they were already stationed on Tatooine well before the Tantive IV even entered the system. And those troopers all around Tatooine wore well-worn armor. They weren't fresh off a landing craft.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Well, the Stormtroopers were probably the detachment Vader ordered from the Star Destroyer, although there are at least two Destroyers in orbit later(Although Vader's Destroyer from the opening presumabely was the one that docked with the Death Star after the Obi-Wan hutt scene). However it could be that they were just coordinating the search or something.

Or Vader just left the search in the hands of the local garrison while he dragged Leia back to the Death Star.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well, the Stormtroopers were probably the detachment Vader ordered from the Star Destroyer, although there are at least two Destroyers in orbit later(Although Vader's Destroyer from the opening presumabely was the one that docked with the Death Star after the Obi-Wan hutt scene). However it could be that they were just coordinating the search or something.

Actually, as per Han's dialog, there are at least three Star Destroyers in orbit by the time the Falcon blasts off, and the Devastator is already long gone. That makes altogether four Star Destroyers either mentioned or seen on-screen in EpIV (Han mentions one that isn't seen).

I agree that a detachment led by Praji is sent down to Tatooine from the Devastator to retrieve the plans. It's reasonably clear that they were coordinating with local troops and left behind by the Devastator.

 

[fireproof78]

Edit: this is a response that Vader sent the Imperial troops. Several people have already answered and below is my two credits worth.

No, the Imperials were already present on Tatooine, as they responded to the bar fight incident as well. They clearly are part of the local law enforcement machine. To what extent, I would guess that they maintain martial law, for how little the Empire cares.