Star Wars Books Thread

[JD]

I don't really like the term licensed fan fiction since the fan fiction refers to stuff written by amateurs without any real oversight, while all of the official Star Wars stuff has been fully edited, and written by professional authors. But setting that aside, I think the main difference with the new stuff is that Story Group is taking a bit more of an active role in the development of everything across the franchise, than LFL did before.

They've revealed a bit of information on the TLJ comic adaptation. It's going to be written by Rogue One co-writer and Rebels writer Gary Whitta, with art by Micheal Walsh, colors by Mike Spicer, and covers for #1 and #2 by Mike Del Mundo. Former Marvel CCO Joe Queseda will be providing a variant cover for #1.
The comic will feature new content created exclusively for it.

 

[Prax]

Here is what is found in the first few pages of every Star Wars novel. I made this out of my own copy of "Kenobi," published in 2013. It's a timeline and a continuity, and comes from Lucasfilm. They worked very hard to make one single, consistent storyline. Calling it fan fiction is, besides being factually wrong, disparaging of many people's work(both at Lucasfilm, and the authors who contributed), and even devalues the term "fanfiction."

Here is a more recently updated version I found online:

And here's one that someone put together for the new continuity:

Besides rebooting the EU, nothing has changed. As described in the above James Luceno interview, the story group has always existed, and there is no more or less oversight than before.

 

[Scout101]

I kinda miss the old EU. Didn't feel like it finished, just kinda stopped after a long, long commitment to reading them. Lots of good stuff in there, some bad, but overall, liked it a lot. And just sorta dropped one day; at least needed a better, planned out set to wrap it up. It deserved that.

 

[Reverend]

So wouldn't that make the current EU little more than licensed fan fiction?

No, because there is no "current EU". They've decided that (within reason) most everything they put out is going to be a part of canon which means unlike when George was in charge, the movie people are going to be beholden to what happens in the comics, novels, video games and TV shows (again, within reason.)

I don't really like the term licensed fan fiction since the fan fiction refers to stuff written by amateurs without any real oversight, while all of the official Star Wars stuff has been fully edited, and written by professional authors.

I only meant that so far as the movie people were concerned. Again, it's not a value judgement. It's *OK* for it to be professionally written, officially licenced fan fiction. Indeed, that's usually when the EU was at it's best; going off and doing it's own thing. Indeed, I'd say the further away they got from the movie characters, the better the material got.

But setting that aside, I think the main difference with the new stuff is that Story Group is taking a bit more of an active role in the development of everything across the franchise, than LFL did before.

That is the key difference yes, mostly because they can now as before everything would have out of necessity gone through George, who frankly had better things to do with his time than proof-read a small mountain of manuscripts every year. The licencing people gave the licencing people a set of guidelines, corrected them when they thought they'd gone too far off course or something that might be at cross-purposes with George's projects, but for the most part allowed to run wild.

The LSG seems more focused on actively guiding content creators to help them be better able to tell the kind of stories they want to tell so that they work within the larger continuity, without necessarily having to lean into that continuity just for the sake of it.

I kinda miss the old EU. Didn't feel like it finished, just kinda stopped after a long, long commitment to reading them. Lots of good stuff in there, some bad, but overall, liked it a lot. And just sorta dropped one day; at least needed a better, planned out set to wrap it up. It deserved that.

The EU was never going to be "finished". It just kept going on and on and on with the "big three" with not an awful lot ever really changing and the "arcs" getting less and less interesting. I'm glad it's aimless rambling was cut short.

 

[Scout101]

Could have easily been wrapped up, though. Didn’t have to have and ending, but a better final set of books would have been nice. Literally just stopped with some stuff hanging out there.

 

[Reverend]

Could have easily been wrapped up, though. Didn’t have to have and ending, but a better final set of books would have been nice. Literally just stopped with some stuff hanging out there.

*Could* have, but they weren't gonna. It'd just have trundled on as it is until eventually they just stopped making novels about Old Luke, Leia & Han and started making new ones about when they were still young again. Indeed, I'm pretty sure they're already started to do just that in the last few years before the buy-out.

 

[Tuskin38]

IIRC, wasn't Luke looking for Mortis in the EU when it ended?

 

[Set Harth]

Yes.

 

[Reverend]

IIRC, wasn't Luke looking for Mortis in the EU when it ended?

Yeah that whole thing with "the mother" never really made any sense since it betrayed a basic failure to comprehend the symbolism and metaphor of those characters. Also, that whole plot with an amorphous being going around the galaxy randomly eating people and driving Jedi insane was just shallow and pointless even before they tried to make that very tenuous connection to TCW.

This sort of thing is exactly why I stand by the assertion that the EU was little more than fan-fiction, regardless of the quality of the prose or that it was published under LF's official licence. A lot of it is just basically asinine. See also: a notorious Imperial Warlord being randomly elected as Chancellor of the Republic (or whatever they were calling it by that point.)

 

[Scout101]

*Could* have, but they weren't gonna. It'd just have trundled on as it is until eventually they just stopped making novels about Old Luke, Leia & Han and started making new ones about when they were still young again. Indeed, I'm pretty sure they're already started to do just that in the last few years before the buy-out.

Not sure what your point is. Since they knew they were going to stop making books in this continuity, it could have been wrapped up instead of abandoned. You're describing a completely different scenario where they never stop making them. My scenario was reality-based. They spent 30 years (or whatever) in that EU continuity, would have appreciated a wrap up. Not and ENDING, but tie up the loose threads as best they could, do a AGT-type ending that gives a little closure but still leaves the team out there, or whatever. They just stopped publishing the books one day, and that sucks.

 

[Ithekro]

Give then another five years or so, we may see a revisit once the Sequel Trilogy is over and the authors start to be allowed to just run with things. You might start to see me Legends books from time to time.

Depending of course on what direction the next trilogy takes and what other Lucasfilm projects for Star Wars come out after 2019 when Episode IX comes to us.

We know there will be another animated project following the end of Star Wars: Rebels. We know there is another trilogy coming eventually. There will possibly be a third Anthology film after Solo for 2020. But there is a lot of mystery involved here.

 

[Prax]

but for the most part allowed to run wild.

Some of these claims you make should really have some supporting evidence attached. Can you name the books that authors were allowed to run wild? Almost all of the continuity canon works were Lucasfilm initiatives, usually part of a series, and sometimes Lucas initiatives. Can you name a more tightly woven EU, or fantasy universe that is both as large, and as well meshed, clear and collaborative as Star Wars?

Here's that transcript that I should have made in the first place. James Luceno describes the Story Group vs the old Story Group. A Secret, I will share(It's the same group)

Coffee with Kenobi with Dan Z & Cory Clubb
https://www.coffeewithkenobi.com/book-chat-james-lucenos-tarkin-59-2/
Book Chat featuring James Luceno



CWK: “As you input all his[Tarkin's] background information, and build the story along, how much does Lucasfilm, and the Story Group have input, and how does that process work?”

JL: “It’s really pretty casual. They didn’t um..They simply pitched the idea to me, and from that point on, and this has been the case with all the sort of collaborative brainstorming I’ve done at Lucasfilm over the years. We just basically talk. We talk about the character, we talk… I came in with a rough idea of the story I wanted to tell, and when I wanted to set the story, and that just touched off all sorts of discussions that went all over the place… past, present, future… and when I came out of the meeting, there was nothing that the Story Group wanted me to do. There was nothing that they steered me away from tackling, so I just went back and thought for a couple of months, and came up with an outline. In the outline process, there’s a little more give and take, but it was a very, very comfortable experience working with them.”

CWK: “Was it mostly a lot of conference calls, or did you get to go to Lucasfilm for this sort of a thing?”

JL: “Yeah, I was out at Lucasfilm for the initial story meeting when we sort of… discussed a lot of thing that were going on with Rebels… and at that point, even the Clone Wars Bonus material hadn’t been released, so we were talking about that a little bit. From that point on, we did everything by text, or by email.”

CWK: “That’s fascinating. I think so many fans are intrigued by the whole “Story Group” concept. Have you noticed the difference in how you create a Star Wars novel with the Story Group verses before the Story Group was in place?”

JL: “No, because really, there’s always been a Story Group. I mean, for every novel I’ve written for the franchise, I’ve been involved in these brainstorming sessions, and um… there’s some new faces in this current iteration of the story group, but the process itself was no different. We sit around a long table, and have coffee & doughnuts, and… we talk Star Wars.

CWK: “Sounds like us.”

JL: “Yeah, I mean it’s really…It really is just a brainstorming session where you just swap ideas, and there’s a lot of enthusiasm on all sides. It’s not as harrowing as like a pitch meeting at a Hollywood studio. It’s much more laid back than that.

Also,

Abeloth was a character created by Lucasfilm. She's a mythological creature featured in the final book of the 9 part series "Fate of the Jedi." You should read it. It's a good story... an epic adventure. Luke and Ben go off on a wonderful journey, Han and Leia go on an adventure raising their young granddaughter, and much more.

And 3 of those books were written by Christie Golden, a new canon author.

 

[Tuskin38]

Since they knew they were going to stop making books in this continuity, it could have been wrapped up instead of abandoned.

It may not have been known far enough in advance.

 

[WebLurker]

Abeloth was a character created by Lucasfilm. She's a mythological creature featured in the final book of the 9 part series "Fate of the Jedi." You should read it. It's a good story... an epic adventure. Luke and Ben go off on a wonderful journey, Han and Leia go on an adventure raising their young granddaughter, and much more.

And 3 of those books were written by Christie Golden, a new canon author.

Fair enough that you liked it, but I hated that series. It actually made the reboot easier for me to take initially, before I got into the new tie-ins and found that I enjoyed their direction more than the last few years worth of Legends novels.

 

[Set Harth]

Here's that transcript that I should have made in the first place. James Luceno describes the Story Group vs the old Story Group. A Secret, I will share(It's the same group)

A certain Roger Daltrey quote comes to mind.

See also: a notorious Imperial Warlord being randomly elected as Chancellor of the Republic (or whatever they were calling it by that point.)

Sort of like a notorious pussy-grabber and crook being elected US President. Totally unrealistic.

 

[JD]

I kinda miss the old EU. Didn't feel like it finished, just kinda stopped after a long, long commitment to reading them. Lots of good stuff in there, some bad, but overall, liked it a lot. And just sorta dropped one day; at least needed a better, planned out set to wrap it up. It deserved that.

Yeah, it would have been nice if they had let them do one last book to tie up all the loose threads the previous EU had left hanging.

I only meant that so far as the movie people were concerned. Again, it's not a value judgement. It's *OK* for it to be professionally written, officially licenced fan fiction. Indeed, that's usually when the EU was at it's best; going off and doing it's own thing. Indeed, I'd say the further away they got from the movie characters, the better the material got.

It is literally impossible to have professionally written, licensed fan fiction. If it's licensed, then it's not fan fiction, fan fiction is unlicensed, and as soon as soon as it is licensed, then it's now a professional novel and is not fan fiction. Professional writers are not allowed to write fan fiction, back before all of the drama around the Star Trek fan film Axanar started, one of the regular Trek novelists said that he was invited to write a story for an Axanar anthology, but couldn't do it because if he did then he would never be allowed to write pro novels again.

 

[Reverend]

It is literally impossible to have professionally written, licensed fan fiction. If it's licensed, then it's not fan fiction, fan fiction is unlicensed, and as soon as soon as it is licensed, then it's now a professional novel and is not fan fiction. Professional writers are not allowed to write fan fiction, back before all of the drama around the Star Trek fan film Axanar started, one of the regular Trek novelists said that he was invited to write a story for an Axanar anthology, but couldn't do it because if he did then he would never be allowed to write pro novels again.

Semantics. As I've repeated qualified and explained, I'm not making a value judgement or even necessarily speaking about fan fiction in a literal sense. Only figuratively and only so far as these works relate to George Lucas's canon, which ultimately was the only continuity that really mattered at the time. You can dislike the term or it's comparative semantic usage all you like, but the fact remains that the only thing that distinguished most of the EU from fan fiction was the licence and little else. The continuity and material generated by the EU *did not matter* to the movies. At all. At most, it was a resource for Lucas to *very occasionally* borrow a design or name from, and even that is often overstated.

And yes, you're right, if any author participated in a literal fan fiction project of a licensed property, they'd be committing career suicide and rightly so. But again: I'm being figurative, not literal.

 

[JD]

OK, I see what you're saying now. I thought maybe you didn't understand the difference. I hang out a lot in the Trek Lit section, and people often come in there and either don't understand the difference, or are using "fan fiction" as a way of insulting the books. Basically just calling them, poorly written, pointless garbage.

Have we heard anything about a Solo novelization or comic adaptation yet?

 

[Reverend]

Basically just calling them, poorly written, pointless garbage.

To be brutally honest; there's a not insignificant number of EU title's that would fulfil that criteria IMO. Furthermore, I'd say that the fact that supposed professionals were paid to write them actually makes them *worse* than most fan fiction, regardless of the licence.

Don't get me wrong, there's lots of EU books and comics that I dearly love (and incidentally am entirely unperturbed at their non-canon status) but when I hear fans hold up the EU as some glorious pinnacle of the franchise and any divergence from it as evidence that whatever new thing they're making is going astray, I can't help but assume those people are either looking at the EU though some *heavily* rose tinted glasses, or have terrible taste in literature.
I suppose what just makes it worse is that I'm old enough that I've heard it brought up literally every time something new is made by LF that contradicts some book or comic. From the SE's, to the PT, TCW and Rebels, RO, and of course the ST thus far. It's gotten a little old.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I was kind of amazed at the sudden flip in opinion about the EU once it was declared non-canon.
In the last few years before it ended, I seemed to mostly hear about how bad pretty much everything other than the Thrawn trilogy, and a handful of other books were. Then all of a sudden once the EU ended, everybody loved all of them, and Lucasfilm declaring them noncanon was the worst thing to every happen to fandom.

Oh, and sorry about the misunderstanding.