Star Wars and former Jedi

[sbk1234]

As we all know, in Star Wars, Episode 2, Count Dooku was introduced as a Jedi who left the order. Gone rogue, so to speak. It was mentioned that if the Jedi Council found out about Anakin's marriage to Padme, that he'd be kicked out of the order. Well, it seems that if a Jedi was to leave the order like that, there'd be some guy out there with a shit load of power, not answering to anyone.

Has it ever been mentioned in the EU that the Jedi keep tabs on these former Jedi and make sure that they don't really start abusing their powers?

Ideas and discussions, please.

 

[DarKush]

That's an interesting idea. I don't think that it has been mentioned, at least in the books and comics I've read. I doubt that the Jedi have been keeping tabs on the former Jedi. If I recall correctly, Mace or Yoda mentioned the dearth of Jedi in AOTC. They were only able to bring a relatively small number to Geonosis. The Jedi seemed to be few in number, in terms of keeping watch over the galaxy, and spread too thin it seemed by the end of the Old Republic.

 

[timothy]

in the days of the old republic there used to be jedi families. but the order changed after the final sith battle, and attachments were considered to be a no no. there are other force using factions out there so I don't see why not.

 

[sbk1234]

My son just mentioned to me about in the past Jedi had a way of affecting the midiclorian count of an individual, thereby reducing his effectiveness in using the Force. I've never heard this. Anyone ever heard of this?

 

[DarKush]

^
Not sure about that, however, I know of one instance where one ancient Jedi stripped another of the Force.

 

[timothy]

that took place in the tales of the jedi niome sunrider stripped ulic qul drama of his powers.

 

[Lindley]

Given some of the events in The New Jedi Order, one could hypothesize that a Jedi's powers cannot really be stripped as such, but can be "frequency-shifted" to effectively take them out of sync with the normal part of the Force. Not to say they couldn't still do stuff, but it would require re-learning quite a bit; and it might feel like a complete de-power, thus preventing the victim from even trying to re-learn.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I would think that the Jedi would have to imprison fallen members of their order for life. Maybe they're too kind-hearted to do that, but if they knew they should be taking a hard line and simply refused to, that should have been made more clear in the story.

Would have been nice foreshadowing for the Jedi to actually argue about Dooku - look what being nice gets ya! - and have Anakin become contemptuous for the Jedi for being such weaklings, who are allowing chaos to break out because they don't have the strength to imprison someone they should have known would be a source of chaos. Better to imprison one guy than to allow the death and destruction he's unleashed.

Now there's a beautiful motive for Anakin to decide the Jedi are too weak to run things, and he needs to take over, that seems perfectly reasonable and doesn't make him look like a dumb, whiny punk.

But the Jedi Council shouldn't be allowed to meddle with the ability of Force users to use the Force. That's a cheat, letting them off the hook too easily. A good story would force them to come to terms with the conundrum of how to deal with Jedi gone bad. They can lock them up someplace where even their powers won't help them escape; they can execute them; or they can deal with the chaos they cause.

 

[DarKush]

Given some of the events in The New Jedi Order, one could hypothesize that a Jedi's powers cannot really be stripped as such, but can be "frequency-shifted" to effectively take them out of sync with the normal part of the Force. Not to say they couldn't still do stuff, but it would require re-learning quite a bit; and it might feel like a complete de-power, thus preventing the victim from even trying to re-learn.

I'm not so sure. With the Force being caused by midichlorian count (thank you TPM!), might it be possible to leech the midichlorians from their bodies, or some such? In addition to Ulic's Force powers being stripped from him, the Yuuzhan Vong were also ripped from the Force, though I'm not sure how. Because of that, they were outside the Force and that made them very tough adversaries for the Jedi.

 

[Lindley]

Jacen was able to feel the Vong once he knew what to look for.

 

[DarKush]

Jacen was able to feel the Vong once he knew what to look for.

But not at first; he had to go through whatever he faced in "Traitor" after being captured by the Vong and tortured by them (I'm guessing here based on what I've heard about the book because it's one of the NJO books I haven't completed reading yet). Previously, only Anakin could sense the Vong and that was through the aid of a lambent crystal in his lightsaber. Now in the current Invasion comic books set during the Yuuzhan Vong War, they have Jedi Finn Galfridian who can sense the Vong, but the mystery behind that hasn't been revealed.

 

[sbk1234]

^
Not sure about that, however, I know of one instance where one ancient Jedi stripped another of the Force.

That may be to what he was referring.

 

[fett51]

I think I remember Anakin in the Citadel episodes of clone wars saying the citadel was originally built by as a prison for Jedi who fall to the dark side. In the EU they also allow Jedi to go into exile if they aren't actively dark side, and as already discussed they can cut people off from the force.

Dooku apparently left because he was fed up with the corruption of the Republic. They probably allowed it because that's a completely understandable view, to lock him up for it would be a little psi corps.

 

[Set Harth]

My son just mentioned to me about in the past Jedi had a way of affecting the midiclorian count of an individual, thereby reducing his effectiveness in using the Force. I've never heard this. Anyone ever heard of this?

There's no source that I'm aware of where someone's midichlorian count was said to have been changed, but as others have mentioned there are instances where Jedi have been "stripped of the Force", in apparent semi-magical fashion. In Patterns of Force, Vader somehow removes Kajin Savaros' ability to use the Force simply by erasing his memory.

 

[JediKnightButler]

From what it appeared in AOTC they seemed to be aware of Dooku's political idealism but they didn't believe that there was even a remote possibility that he was behind the assassination attempt on Padme, so it's doubtful that they had been keeping a real close eye on him. Anyway, if they HAD been keeping tabs on him, they would've known more about his organization of the CIS and his plans for war, things the Jedi learned only after they had started investigating the assassination attempts on Padme. The novelization of AOTC discusses a little more of Dooku's backstory than what we get in the movie and the Jedi's disappointment about his leaving the order.

 

[milo bloom]

I'm not so sure. With the Force being caused by midichlorian count .

Incorrect. False. And wrong.

Look, folks can bitch about Portman phoning it in, Jar Jar being a racist stereotype, the Jedi generally being putzes, whatever.

But it is factually incorrect to continue repeating this fallacy.

The midichlorians are the antenna which the Jedi use to tap into The Force. The Force is still an energy field created by all living things, it surrounds us, binds us, holds the universe together. Was it maybe a bad decision to even introduce them? Probably. But the worst sin by Lucas in that regards was not fully explaining them so that this dead horse doesn't keep getting dragged out for flogging.

It's not much more of a stretch to accept ideas in science fiction like being able to boost telepathy via drugs, or block it via drugs, or background radiation, or whatever to accepting the idea that there's some biological component to The Force. The original trilogy is actually kinda clear on that. There's talk about the "offspring" of Anakin being a danger, and there's the general fact that there's simply so few people using The Force in the OT. If is was something purely spiritual, it would have been far harder to suppress, even for the Empire. The fact that you can target those biologically inclined to the trait means you can control it that much easier.

 

[Set Harth]

I'm not so sure. With the Force being caused by midichlorian count .

Incorrect. False. And wrong.

Look, folks can bitch about Portman phoning it in, Jar Jar being a racist stereotype, the Jedi generally being putzes, whatever.

But it is factually incorrect to continue repeating this fallacy.

The midichlorians are the antenna which the Jedi use to tap into The Force.

I suspect that's actually what DarKush meant.

If is was something purely spiritual, it would have been far harder to suppress, even for the Empire.

This.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Or, we could just forget midichlorians exist. That works too.

If is was something purely spiritual, it would have been far harder to suppress, even for the Empire.

It needs to be some intersection of the biological and the spiritual. The Empire can suppress spiritual elements by being a corruptive force in the cosmos, and distracting all the potential Jedi into bad lifestyles serving darkside values.

I don't see why that would be so difficult. What's more difficult is what the Jedi do - trying to convince people who have great potential power not to spend their lives solely seeking their individual advantage.

If the conflict is about biological technobabble, it no longer has a moral element. Without that moral element, Star Wars loses its essential character, of playing out a stark conflict between grand, universal concepts of good and evil.

However, there does need to be a biological element or Force sensitivity cannot be inherited. There was never any reason to give that biological element a name and exaggerate its importance in the scheme of things, since it's merely a means to an ends, and the moral conflict is the heart of the story.

What really compounded the problem was the way the PT ignored the spiritual/mystical side of the story altogether. The "moral" side of the story became merely political and psychological. If there had been more effort to depict the spiritual/mystical story, along the lines of the Mortis Arc, that would have corrected the imbalance between the mystical and technobabble elements.

 

[Honorable Ensign]

Yeah, I got the impression (somewhere. From some EU stuff, I suppose) that Dooku leaving the Order was a mutual agreement; they didn't know he'd gone darkside. No reason to suspect him, previously peaceful and trusting times, a small number of total Jedi ever busy with other things, and he gets no check-ups, I suppose. Would have been nice for any of this to be clear in the actual films, of course.

 

[DWF]

It's not much more of a stretch to accept ideas in science fiction like being able to boost telepathy via drugs, or block it via drugs, or background radiation, or whatever to accepting the idea that there's some biological component to The Force. The original trilogy is actually kinda clear on that. There's talk about the "offspring" of Anakin being a danger, and there's the general fact that there's simply so few people using The Force in the OT. If is was something purely spiritual, it would have been far harder to suppress, even for the Empire. The fact that you can target those biologically inclined to the trait means you can control it that much easier.

Since the Jedi religion is all but dead as long Palpatine is Emperor I'd say the Empire did a pretty good job of suppressing the Force. Han Solo even refered to it an "Ancient religion" and Tarkin said that the Jedi's fire had long since gone out and that Vader was the only one left.